Aurora Perrineau and Mouna Traoré first met at The Retaility’s Mother’s Day event in 2023. They quickly bonded. But not over motherhood.

“As someone who is childless and, perhaps, will be for the duration of my time on this planet, I wasn’t thinking about mom things,” Traoré says, with a laugh, while seated in the backyard of Perrineau’s Los Angeles home. “I’m a mother of food babies, but that’s about it.”

“I’m a dog mom,” says Perrineau, who has two little cuties named Moose and Ollie. She also often fosters pups with her longtime boyfriend Michael Vlamis. Case in point: She’s looking after one from the L.A. non-profit rescue organization Dogs Without Borders as she and Traoré speak. “Did you assume I was a dog mom?”

“I didn’t assume anything,” Traoré says.

“I didn’t assume what you did either.”

But Perrineau and Traoré soon discovered they were both actors with similar interests.

Perrineau was born in New York, but often traveled with her dad, Harold Perrineau, an actor whose extensive resume includes “From,” “The Matrix,” and “Lost.” By twenty-one, she launched a career of her own by landing a lead role in 2015’s “Jem and the Holograms,” followed by films including “Truth or Dare” and director Ava DuVernay’s Netflix miniseries “When They See Us.” Since then, Perrineau has gained attention as C on HBO’s “Westworld,” Dani Powell on “Prodigal Son,” and Riddy on the Netflix series “Kaos.”

For her part, Traoré has been a working actress since her teenage years in Toronto. She’s appeared opposite major names including Octavia Spencer on the miniseries “Self Made: Inspired by the Life of Madam C.J. Walker” and Alfre Woodard on the BET series “The Porter.” In addition to starring on Canada’s longrunning hit series “Murdoch Mysteries,” Traoré has a slew of television credits that include “Suits,” “Shadowhunters,” “Rookie Blue,” “American Gods,” and much more.

While their childhoods and earliest industry experiences may differ, both women understand the highs and lows of their industry, which — in some ways — is how their friendship initially blossomed. However, their conversations quickly evolved during hikes and horseback riding as they realized they both embrace a sense of adventure outside of their professional lives.

Here, they discuss everything from their childhoods and careers to dating and dreaming…

MOUNA TRAORÉ: What do you remember about the time we first met?

AURORA PERRINEAU: I was [feeling] shy at this party and you beelined for me. It was amazing because I was like, ‘That’s how you make a friend. That’s a normal, nice human [thing to do],’ and you were super sweet and open and wanted to get to know me and chat. You didn’t know anything about me and I thought that was cool. What do you remember?

MT: I remember being at the party [and] walking in. I’m not going to lie. One of the first things I do when I go anywhere is I find the Black people.

AP: Same. Same. Same.

MT: So, I was like, ‘There she is.’ I didn’t know anybody. I was probably very full on for a first encounter, but that is how I am. I was curious [about you]. I remember you saying that your dad had worked in Toronto, [which is where I’m from]. I was like, ‘Oh my God, what does your dad do? Maybe we know similar people.’ I never assumed that you would be an actor. … But I was taken aback because you were so receptive to my personality. [It was an event co-hosted with EF Collection and they were offering ear piercings.] I tried to convince you to get a piercing and you didn’t.

AP: I would have done it, but I couldn’t at the time [because of a job I was on]. But I would have done it.

MT: I feel like you were tempted. I still have mine. It’s healed well. I got a delightful new piercing.

AP: You might have been the first one to get the piercing.

MT: I started the trend, and I got an aggressive one. It was painful, but I did it. It’s been a delight getting to know you since then.

AP: You as well. Actually, I have a funny story. Did I tell you that I am friends with someone [you know]? I messaged him because we’re good friends, and I was like, ‘I met this girl at this party, and I’m going hiking with her.’ He was like, ‘Oh, what’s her name? I was like, ‘Mouna,’ and he [said], ‘Stop it. I met her at a party.’ His name is Spencer [Waldner]. He’s a tall redhead. He was like, ‘She came up to me. I felt uncomfortable at this party, too, and she started talking to me. She was so nice.’ I was like, ‘That’s what happened to me. We bonded over how nice you are.’

MT: I met him at a CW party or something like that… Years ago. Something that was really sceney.

AP: I think probably because my boyfriend [Michael Vlamis] is his best friend and was on the CW and brought him to a party.

MT: Wow. What a small world. He was sweet and nice. I still follow him [on social media]. We’ve kept in touch over the years, but I don’t know him. That’s so funny. I guess I am that girl.

AP: You are that girl.

THEIR UPBRINGINGS

MT: Being from Toronto, my experience in this industry is, obviously, very different than yours. Also, I didn’t grow up with a parent who knew what [acting as a profession] was. My parents were like, ‘Actor? Not doctor? Not lawyer? Not engineer?’ What was it like for you growing up in L.A. running around with lots of other young actors and actresses?

AP: I was born in New York and lived there forever. Then we moved to Australia and then we moved to Hawaii—

MT: What was in Australia?

AP: The Matrix II and III, [which my dad was filming at the time].

MT: That was in Australia?

AP: In a soundstage. I have no idea why it was there. So I bounced around with adults a lot [when I was a kid]. I thought that was normal. I didn’t have friends growing up, I would say. Then I moved here and went to middle school for a little bit, and then I went to high school for a year. I homeschooled myself for a year and then graduated two years early.

MT: What do you mean you homeschooled yourself? You were your own teacher?

AP: There’s a homeschooling [organization] called Options for Youth. And you get all of your [lessons online]. If you want to finish that year, you can. You just have to dedicate all of your time.

MT: Do you know how to do math?

AP: No. [I said] to my teacher, ‘I did every single thing except for the math. Sir, I can graduate now and never come back here,’ and he was like, ‘Cool. You did your math.’ He just signed off on it. I didn’t do anything.

MT: How did I know that?

AP: Because, every time I’m about to tip, I’m like, ‘So, what’s everyone else tipping? Ah, twenty percent, which is [what exactly]?’ How sad. So I think, for me, I don’t think things are as cool as I wish I thought they were in the industry. It feels more like a nine-to-five in a way. I’m not as dazzled by things, which is a good and bad thing, I think.

MT: That’s probably what attracted me to you as a friend because you’re not someone who seems affected or jaded. You’re just you, which is nice.

AP: Thank you. I appreciate that. How do you feel [about it]? [Your family isn’t in the industry], but did you have friends [who] were in it? Or did you find them as you started working in Toronto?

MT: It was, kind of, bizarre. I went to a performing arts high school. I was always pushing my parents to put me in extracurriculars [like] improv and drama classes. When I was in high school, there were working actors in my high school who were on ‘Degrassi,’ [a popular Canadian teen drama series with the actor now known as Drake], which was the ceiling.

AP: I love ‘Degrassi.’

MT: It was the pinnacle of what I could do in Toronto. It wasn’t actually, but that’s what I thought it was. So I was on my own figuring out, ‘How do I do what these other kids are doing? Because that’s what I want to do.’ I thought, ‘Okay, in three years, I’ll move to L.A. and be a movie star.’

AP: I mean, we all [think like that]. You book your first one and it’s a one-liner, and you’re like, ‘This is it. I’ve made it. Now is the time,’ and then five years go by [without work].

MT: Then fourteen years later, I finally moved to L.A. and have started to plant seeds and grow roots here. But it took [time]. I had decided early on that I wanted to be a big fish in a small pond. I wouldn’t even say I’m a big fish. I’m just saying I wanted to grow in a friendlier environment.

AP: That’s a fair thing to say. That’s fair.

MT: Because I knew that if I came to L.A., it would be easy for me to get lost [in the mix here]. Being in Toronto, I didn’t want to leave home. I was enjoying myself in my twenties. There is a robust industry there. It’s different than what goes on in L.A. and New York. But I got my hands wet and got to have some interesting experiences. Now I’m here. I feel very much at home here. It’s corny to say this, but the sky is the limit.

(She laughs at herself.)

MT: Don’t put that in there.

AP: You have to.

MT: Do not.

AP: In all CAPS. ‘THE SKY IS THE LIMIT. Mouna.’

MT: I just feel like there are endless possibilities. That’s what I meant to say. Thankyouverymuch.

AP: I think you’re right though.

MT: I just started to feel suffocated back home, and I felt like I wasn’t [doing as much as I wanted].

AP: That’s fair.

FAMILY MATTERS

MT: Have you had the opportunity to work with people you either grew up [around] or were friends with?

AP: I’ve never worked with [anyone]. No, I take that back. That’s a lie. I did a [reoccurring role] on a show where I knew this girl. We were lightly friends, but she was friends with all of my friends, which is how I knew her. I ended up playing her girlfriend on a show years ago, which was fun because it was my first time being romantic with anyone on set. It was nice that it was somebody I knew and it wasn’t a man. It was cool. I liked it. But other than that, I’ve never worked with anyone I knew, outside of my boyfriend [who] directed, wrote, and starred in a movie [called ‘Crossword] that I also starred in with him. We got to cast some of my friends and worked with a bunch of his friends behind the scenes. But that was a project that we put together ourselves. I’ve never been cast in something other than that [where] I got to work with this person I’ve known for years, which I would love, but it hasn’t happened.

MT: What would you do if you got cast in your dream role but you had to work with an ex-lover that you hate?

AP: Funny enough…

MT: NO!

AP: It almost happened. And then the creator [of the show] was like, ‘I think this will be too much drama,’ and I was like, ‘I think I have to agree with you,’ and that other person had already been cast. But I was thankful to never work with that person again.

MT: Were you contemplating it? Were you like, ‘Okay, I’m just going to pull up my big girl pants?’

AP: I was going to pull up my big girl pants and do it because I thought that it was going to be a big project and it’s freakin’ hard out here. I [thought], ‘Okay, I’m going to do this.’ Thankfully, it didn’t come down to that. It came down to them being like, ‘This is going to be too weird. We’re not even going to [go there].’

MT: Did they ask you?

AP: There was a conversation with them about it. Then it turned into, ‘Yeah.’ [Followed by], ‘But then we thought [about it], and we thought this would be weird.’ And I [said], ‘You’re right. That was a great call on everybody’s behalf.’ Also, I think if they would have asked him, he would have said, ‘Absolutely not.’

MT: What did you do to him?

AP: Nothing! What did he do to me?! He would not have pulled up his big boy pants, you know?

MT: I would say, ‘Absolutely the fuck not,’ [if I were in that position].

AP: Really?

MT: No. I wouldn’t.

AP: But what if you didn’t have a bad breakup with him?

MT: If I didn’t have a bad breakup, I’d be working with him. But if I had a bad breakup with someone and if I felt they were—

AP: Not deserving of your time.

MT: Or [even if it’s] just somebody I didn’t want to work with, I don’t think [I would].

AP: It’s [not] worth it.

MT: I have gone through so much shit. There’s no amount of money in the world that could make me work with and put myself in a contract [or] binding relationship with someone that I fucking hate. I can’t do it.

AP: That’s fair. I’m just always like, ‘I can make it feel not that bad.’ I would have been miserable, but I definitely [thought], ‘I like this project a lot. Am I going to let this man ruin [that]?’ That’s where my brain was. ‘Am I going to let this guy stand in the way?’ But at the end of the day, [I] would have been his love interest.

MT: That would have been fucking awful.

AP: I would have been miserable every day of my life. [My boyfriend] would have had to hear it every day when I’m coming home.

MT: And just being grumbly. Then imagine doing press and having to pretend that you like the person.

AP: It couldn’t happen.

MT: I think this is a universe of abundance, and the universe will provide you with ample opportunities that are not that.

AP: Yes, yes, yes. Honestly, though, that was the only instance of an ex being involved in any project. None of my other exes have been involved in any projects I’ve been in or vice versa or even close to auditioning for the same thing. I’m like, ‘Thank God.’ At least, I haven’t seen it. I don’t know if they have. [You’re] debating something. [You’re] contemplating something.

MT: I was thinking about a situation where I was working on a show. I’d been seeing one of the leads of the show. I was working as a guest star and he kind of—not ghosted me—but cooled off [and] didn’t say anything. Then I started seeing someone else, and, then, I had to go back after Christmas break to keep filming. We had to film a kissing scene or a love scene. I hated the whole experience. They didn’t finish up my character’s storyline, and I feel like it had everything to do with the fact that he was not interested in me anymore. But I don’t know.

AP: It could definitely have been that. People are petty, you know?

MT: Yeah. Wow. Dating actors is not for the faint of heart.

AP: No, I would never date me.

MT: You wouldn’t? Why?

AP: I think I’m insane.

MT: Well, that’s true.

AP: I wouldn’t do it. Yeah, dating actors is interesting. [But] I couldn’t not date an actor at this point, I think. My parents were like, ‘Don’t do it,’ and they’re both actors, and here I am. I’ve only dated actors.

MT: That’s crazy.

AP: Actually, that’s not true. But mainly. I always go back to actors because I’m like, ‘You understand when I send you a text that [says], Hey, I’m not going to be home until 5:30 in the morning.’

MT: ‘Or I have to leave for four months.’

AP: Yeah, I’m not sneaking around, lying about my job. Actors are like, ‘Oh, yeah. That makes sense. They’re pushing your call [time].’ Exactly. Also, when you tell someone, ‘I didn’t get this job, and I’m really sad.’ [Non-actors tend to think], ‘Not a big deal.’ You’re like, ‘No, this is a huge deal. This has ruined my life for the next four weeks.’

MT: I know what you mean. For almost three years [now], dating actors has been a dealbreaker for me. As soon as someone says they’re an actor, I’m like, ‘Nice to meet you. [Next].’

AP: You’re not into the crazymaking?

FINDING BALANCE (AND ADVENTURE)

MT: I think it’s important to have balance; even in terms of being friends with actors. You have a big life outside of work, and the things that we talk about [without a recorder present] are not just predicated on work and the fact that we both have that in common. [But] for a lot of actors, people I have known, their entire identity is centered on acting, and they don’t have much of a personality or interests outside of that. That, to me, is mind-numbing. I have such a big life outside of work. I have so many interests and things I want to do. When I go home at night, I don’t want to be talking about this shit.

AP: I get it.

MT: I want to talk about anything else, you know?

AP: Listen, as long as they have a rich outside life. I love to travel. I need to be someone who likes to travel.

MT: You’re always traveling. You’re always in a car driving somewhere.

AP: I love a road trip.

MT: How do you do that?

AP: [Michael] says yes to everything.

MT: You must really like him because you guys spend a lot of time together.

AP: We really do spend all of our time together.

MT: I don’t know if I could spend that much time with a man.

AP: It’s strange. We got back from New Orleans and were like, ‘Should we see other people? Nah.’

MT: It’s like you’re in a healthy relationship. My God.

AP: We like to spend our time together. We do talk about work a lot because we work together. But we both love food. At the end of the day, if you can eat, you’re already getting a check in my book. It’s a pretty low bar there. ‘Love to eat. Loveto travel. Like to explore and do random things and down for [whatever].’ Like you. You’re down for the random stuff.

MT: Where are you guys going next?

AP: I think we might go to Austin because he’s got family and friends there. I don’t think he’s been there, but I’ve been there a couple of times.

MT: You love your American road trips.

AP: You know what it is? I used to go to Europe a lot when I was younger. One, I probably didn’t appreciate it that much because I was young. But two, I started thinking, ‘I want to be in the car. I don’t want to always be in an airport and [on] a plane.’ Also, it’s cheaper. Well, it depends on how you do it, but it is cheaper. There [was] a lot of America I [hadn't seen] because I thought the only places to go were out of the country. Then as I started seeing more and more, I was like, ‘Wait. This is beautiful, and this landscape is different than this landscape.’

MT: I’m not judging.

AP: I’m just saying. America has got some spots.

MT: I’m sure she does. And I hope to one day see them.

AP: Wyoming.

MT: That’s on my list. Montana is on my list. We’ve talked about this. That’s so cute. I would [like] a partner in travel and crime. A Clyde to my Bonnie.

AP: Honestly, that is what you need. It doesn’t matter what they do [for a living] – as long as they’re down for the rest of the adventure, and they’re not married to their career, fully.

MT: It’s hard to find somebody who can get up and go and have that flexibility in their work too. To be able to [say], ‘Let’s just get in the car.’

AP: And to have balance.

UNPARTNERING

MT: I have been unpartnered for a long time, so I can’t relate. But maybe one day I will.

AP: I think it’s nice that you’re not like, ‘I need to get into a relationship.’ You seem very comfortable and loving your life.

MT: I have so much fun.

AP: That’s what I’m saying. I feel like sometimes when people are out of relationships for a long time, you get one or the other. Someone who loves the single life or someone who is like, ‘I just want a partner.’ That’s when you pick people [who] are not right for you because you settle on whatever.

MT: Because you’re looking out of a place of desperation. I feel full. I saw a quote that [said something] like, ‘Sometimes you don’t have a great love. Sometimes that’s not part of what your story is.’ Something to that effect. That moved me. Because I think — especially as a woman — it’s just assumed that you’ll meet someone, and you will settle down and start the rest of your life.

AP: You’ll get married. Have children. Do all of the things.

MT: I had a moment where I was like, ‘Will I be okay if that’s not my story? If that never happens to me?’ I think so much of how I’ve tried to develop myself and where I’ve tried to center myself when thinking about partnership and the work that I do with my therapist has been from a place of, ‘I want to be okay with whatever the universe hands me,’ because it’s not given that I will partner with someone and have kids. It’s not given that I will even be as mobile as I am for the rest of my foreseeable adult life. There are so many things that are out of my control. I want to develop myself in a way where I know that I’m going to be okay, and I’m going to have a certain amount of tools so that I can process and engage in the world regardless of these external factors that I have no control over – which include a man, you know?

AP: I think that’s important.

MT: Or a woman.

AP: I agree with that as well.

MT: So we’ll see. I think about children. And I think if I have a strong partnership with someone, I probably will want to have kids. But I don’t want to be a wife.

AP: Interesting.

MT: I realized that I want to be a husband.

AP: I guess I’ve never really [thought about it]. I don’t think about marriage that much because it wasn’t a big thing in my household, and no one is religious in my household. So it never really got talked about that much. They’re chill.

MT: My dad is obsessed with the idea of me—

AP: Getting married?

MT: Not getting married; having kids. He wants to be a grandfather so bad that my dad literally [doesn’t care how]. I could be impregnated by the most diabolical criminal, and my dad would be over the moon.

AP: He doesn’t care as long as he’s got the grandkid? He’s like, ‘Cut that man out. I’ll take the grandkid.’

MT: One hundred percent. My dad has literally been like, ‘Have a kid. I will raise it. You don’t have to worry about anything.’

AP: That’s very cute. But, no.

MT: It’s something. But I realize, I was never the kind of kid that fantasized about having a family when I was older or being married.

AP: No. Me neither.

MT: My fantasies have almost always been about having adventures and being an independent woman.

AP: Mine have been animals.

MT: Really?

AP: I [always thought], ‘I’ll go on safaris.’ I used to think I was going to be a dolphin trainer. ‘I’m going to have a zoo.’ ‘I’m going to own a farm.’ There was never, ‘I’m going to have a farm with a man there using a hoe. Nope. That’ll be me.’

MT: You are the hoe.

(They laugh.)

AP: With my long johns on and my hoeing ways. Yeah. I never thought about it. I enjoy companionship, but it has to be the right person. And, as they say, ‘You kiss a lot of frogs...’

MT: ‘You kiss a lot of frogs if you want to find your prince.’

AP: See I gave you one. You had a cheesy line. I had a cheesy line. Now [The Retaility is] going to add both in there. So, that’s just for you. But I do think you have to do that and find out what works for you. Also, I don’t think you have to have the same interests [as a partner]. I don’t think [Michael] wants a farmer. I know he doesn’t want to farm. He’s fine to live on a farm, but he’s not trying to go out there and have, like, seven hundred sheep. But he’s down for the adventure of it and like, ‘Go ahead. You do you, girl.’

MT: When I think about what I fantasized [about] when I was a kid, it was being an actor and working with cool people and being funny and doing the things that I want. I have only scratched the surface of the things little Mouna wanted to do. That occupies way more thought and desire than some man waking up in my bed [and] messing up my towels.

THE DREAM

MT: [I’m] curious what your dream role [would be]. [Would you want to play the] female Doctor Doolittle because you love animals? [Do] you want to be a badie? What kind?

AP: I [want to] do horrible things and, maybe, I’m unredeemable.

MT: Where does that come from?

AP: Maybe all of my pent-up rage. I don’t know. I just need to let it out. A lot of times, I play tough characters, but it’s like, ‘She’s tough because she’s been harmed so many times,’ and then at the end of it, you realize she’s actually kind and doing all of this for the greater good. For once, I want to not do something for the greater good.

MT: You want to be an unrepentant baddie.

AP: And do some evil stuff. I want my Denzel [Washington]-‘Training Day’ moment.

MT: Is there any particular role you have in mind?

AP: That one.

MT: [You want them to] do a remake of ‘Training Day?’

AP: They already did. A TV show. And they reversed the characters. But if they did [another film] remake—which they shouldn’t—they shouldn’t touch it… But if they were going to do something similar, let me be Alonzo [Harris], and let me be a criminal.

MT: I love that for you.

AP: How about you?

MT: Mine is so specific. My dream role is to be in the TV adaptation of “Red Rising.” It’s a sci-fi/fantasy book series by Pierce Brown.

AP: You’ve told me about this book before.

MT: I’m obsessed. I’ve read it and re-read it many times. There are several characters in it that I would love to play. The first character is Aja au Grimmus who is the big baddie villain in the first three books.

AP: Okay, so you want to be a villain too.

MT: Yes, but it’s so much more than being a villain. For me, she’s this powerful, dynamic character [who] comes from this incredible family with all this history. It’s hard to describe [if you haven’t read it]. But she’s one of the best swordspeople in the universe.

AP: That would be a fun thing to do, too.

MT: The heroes’ big battle at the end of the series is with this character and it’s such an iconic moment. I’ve spent so much time imagining it in my mind. Or I would want to play one of her sisters, Atalantia, who is psychotic. Her power doesn’t come from her physicality. It comes from the game she plays with the power she has and the resources she has. She is so evil. She will do anything. She is diabolical but funny and weird. My personality is much more Atalantia, but my heart is always with Aja.

AP: I have to read this book series. There’s a character in [author Tomi Adeyemi]’s ‘Children of Blood and Bone.’ The baddie in that too—that would be you.

MT: You told me about this, too. It’s like Black ‘Harry Potter.’

AP: We talked about both of these. I wrote these both down, and I was supposed to buy the books. I haven’t done it.

MT: Get to it, honey.

OVERCOMING CHALLENGES

MT: What was the most unexpected challenge that you’ve faced in your career to this day?

AP: I don’t know. I guess auditioning is always a challenge.

MT: Do you like auditioning?

AP: No, I do not.

MT: I love auditioning.

AP: I don’t like self-taping. I like to go [into] the room [to audition]. I like to talk to people, which is funny because I don’t like [talking to people] when I’m out. I get too shy, but when I’m in my element, and we’re all talking about the same project and having a creative experience together, I find that to be super fun. I love casting directors and getting to know them and what they like. Working with them, I always find that exciting because then they know you, and they know what to bring you in for. It’s a nice collaborative experience. I like that. I don’t like self-taping because there’s no one there, and you’re not getting feedback. You’re not working with someone else on, ‘How could we make this even cooler than what’s happening right now?’ It feels like you’re going to a meeting. You’re putting your resume down and walking out without talking to anyone. I don’t love that. Auditions are tough because I always want to bring myself into characters, and I don’t know that that’s always [the route to go]. You should bring a level of yourself, but sometimes I go a little too far, and I’m like, ‘This is not what they’re looking for. I know I’m not getting this job, but this is what I’m going to be doing today.’ It [was] a tough time with the strike and COVID and all those things. It’s a huge win when you get a job [right now]. It’s always a huge win, but right now, it feels even bigger [because] it’s hard to know where your tapes are going or who is actually watching them.

MT: Or [if] you’re even being seen or considered.

AP: Auditioning has always been the most challenging part of the job. Unless you work with someone horrible [that’s hard, too]. But most of the time, once you get to set, the challenges of set when you’re in it [aren’t so bad]. [Maybe] you’re like, ‘I’m hot,’ or ‘This person is annoying me,’ or whatever. [But] you forget about it as soon as the job is over, and you just remember how amazing it was. As opposed to I always remember the audition process for every job I’ve ever gotten to a tee. What about you?

MT: The biggest challenge for me, right now, is being seen for what I actually can do. For most of my career, I was so focused on working and doing the next job, and somehow I’ve ended up on four period shows, which is insane because I’m fucking hilarious and I should be doing comedy. Comedy is where I started, and comedy is where my focus is.

AP: But I love a period piece. That’s cool.

MT: Girl, not me. I’m over it. Girl, please. We’re not doing that again.

AP: Noting that. Anytime I get a period piece audition, I’m sending it to you immediately. I don’t get period pieces though, so don’t worry about it.

MT: You have a very 1940s look to you.

AP: Never. It never happens.

MT: Really? I’m going to pray for you then. I haven’t done enough work that demonstrates what I’m capable of. Some casting directors know because they’ve seen the tapes come in consistently. But for the most part, I don’t think I’m known for or recognized for what I can do. Some of my favorite work has never been seen by anybody because it [took place] in a theatre, or it was at some small stage, and it was one performance. Right now, I’m completely committed to working in comedy and changing that perspective of me.

AP: So, you want to step away from drama for a bit?

MT: Yeah. Honestly, I mostly only want to do comedy. I’m committed and focused on playing characters who are closer to myself. Because [I’ve been] in a lot of the dramas, I haven’t had an opportunity to bring myself [into the projects]. I would love to play roles that are more in alignment with who I am because I’m a funny person. I think I am a character actor. I’ve got a lot of characters in me. I’ve done a lot of training, specifically, in that realm of comedy—building characters and doing sketch [comedy]. I’d love to do a full transition.

LEARNING CURVE

MT: Is there anything specific you’ve learned about yourself over the last year?

AP: The older I’m getting [the more focused I am on the people in my life]. In this past year, I [have been] realizing more and more that – as much as I love acting and it is my world – I’m starting to become more [focused on] having stronger friendships and relationships with family and adventure-seeking and all of these things. I’m starting to realize, ‘Ah, you’re 29.’ You hit a wall. You suddenly realize, ‘Oh, this is real life, and everybody is living at the same time as I’m living, and it’s all going very fast, and I won’t be able to do everything the way I can now because my body is healthy.’ And my family is aging with me.

MT: Girl, you act like you’re friggin’ dying. Hello, you’re 29. You’re not even 30. What?

AP: I feel like it. I hit a wall this year, and I said, ‘Oh, wow. Time does go by quickly.’ You think it lasts forever when you’re in your early twenties. You’re like, ‘This is the best shit ever,’ and then you’re like, ‘Oh. Everyone’s aging.’

MT: I feel like you’re calling me out because I’m still there. In my head, I’m still 27, and I’m like, ‘I have all the time in the world.’

AP: I mean, time is – in a way – not real. It’s what you make of your time.

MT: I’m a very young thirty-something woman.

AP: I’m a very old 29. I walked into my bathroom today, and my foot started hurting. I walked up to my boyfriend, and I was like, ‘Oh my God. Something is wrong with my foot,’ and I started limping around. I just stepped wrong, but I [thought], ‘Here it goes. Here goes the body. The body is gone.’ So that’s where I’m at.

MT: Well, you’re not an old maid. You’re not even 30. You’re doing fine, sweetie.

AP: Okay. What did you learn this year?

MT: I think in the last year, I’ve learned… I haven’t learned much.

AP: Listen, it was a weird year.

MT: I have learned to sit in my power and my truth. To trust my gut and to trust my body. Because I’ve had so many experiences where my body was saying no, and I was like, ‘Maybe I should try this again,’ and it’s like, ‘No. Your body doesn’t want to do that. Your body doesn’t like being around this person.’

AP: Your body doesn’t lie.

MT: I’m digesting how much I can trust myself and be confident in the decisions I make coming from that place. Because, so often, I try to make decisions that make sense. Like, I want to say yes to an offer, or say yes to an opportunity because why wouldn’t I? But something in me says, ‘No, this doesn’t feel right.’ It’s okay to trust that. I’m coming out of a tough couple of years of trying to make sense of some difficult things. I’m so happy, and I feel so secure and so clear. That has everything to do with me trusting myself and the decisions I’ve made. I’m trying to lean into that – being like, ‘You listened to yourself, and look at where you are. So imagine how much further you’ll be if you continue to trust yourself.’

FEMALE FRIENDSHIPS

MT: I also would like to ask you what kind of importance your friendships with women have in your life – particularly Black women? I know – for me – Black women save me, and [I know] how profound, deep, and supportive my friendships with Black female friends have been. I always give so much space and grace [to] those friendships. I want to know what your experience with that is like.

AP: My experience with female friends versus male friends… I think I’ve been trying to nourish all of my friendships, but I will say my female friendships more so recently. I’ve realized [the] importance of having similar experiences and talking about our female experiences together without having a male opinion.

MT: [Without] it being seen through the lens of—

AP: A man—even if they are supportive. Sometimes, you’re like, ‘But you don’t fully understand what I’m saying to you.’ As far as my Black friendships with women have been – most of them are actors. So, it’s been a nice thing to have women [who] are going through the same thing of, ‘Ah, we didn’t get that job, and we all auditioned for the same thing.’ Then, we can still all audition for the same thing, and one of us gets it, and [we’re happy for them and celebrate] that any of us got anything. That support has been helpful because you feel – especially in this business – like you’re just swimming in the dark, and you’re like, ‘Is there anyone else feeling this way? Is there anything else happening in this way?’ That has been helpful. You have a glass of wine, and you talk some shit about your day, and that’s been a nice experience.

MT: I think, specifically, with Black women, it’s that there are so many spaces and so many experiences that make me feel crazy. Then, when I connect with my Black female friends, I’m like, ‘Oh, I’m not crazy.’

AP: One trillion percent.

MT: We’re all having a similar experience.

AP: The same experience.

MT: We’re all intuitively sensing the same thing.

AP: And you wonder if you’re making this up or [if], ‘This thing happened at a restaurant… am I nuts?’ ‘Nope, saw it.’

MT: Or even, ‘This thing happened in negotiations, is that something that’s only happening with me? Or is this something consistent?’ That’s so important.

AP: To feel validated.

MT: I’m so sensitive to feeling ‘other’ or like something’s wrong with me. Those friendships are incredibly affirming, and I’m always grateful for them.

AP: I agree. One hundred percent. That was a great question. Look at you.