In Conversation: Amanda Kloots & Hilary Shor

Television personality Amanda Kloots and film producer Hilary Shor are party pals turned newly minted close confidants who bring out the best in one another as they navigate life’s many unknowns.

"I love being with you," Kloots tells Shor, seated on a couch inside the producer's Los Angeles home. "It's a great reminder of putting yourself out there, going to say hi, and making those connections. You never know who you're going to meet and how they're going to be a part of your life."

Case in point: Kloots and Shor first connected at a series of Hollywood events, but they have since become friends outside the party scene. Kloots often turns to Shor to discuss the business of Hollywood, single motherhood, and dating.

"I'm never going to meet anybody sitting on the couch," Kloots says. "I'm not on an app. So, I'm not going to meet somebody by sitting at home."

"No, you're not," Shor interjects. "You're going to get fixed up by someone. I think we talked about that at the L'AGENCE party."

"You've been a great matchmaker," Kloots continues. "I mean, we were talking for twenty minutes [at that fashion party], and I was like, 'You seem like you know everyone. Do you know anybody?'"

The women have since bonded over their respective experiences with motherhood and the pressures that come with being the family breadwinner.

"Watching your journey of single motherhood and being a singleton [has been inspiring]," Shor tells Kloots. "I had a very different journey in that I was married, but I was single [in a sense]. In my life, I was the wage earner. I had to keep a roof [over our heads] and [I paid for] private school. The grace [with which] you've handled these last four years of moving to a new city and being alone [after your husband, Nick, passed away]… I admire you tremendously. I know how much courage that took."

Read on for Kloots and Shor’s soul-affirming conversation in which the women discuss navigating the unexpected, grief, loss, their careers, the business of Hollywood, and everything in between...

HILARY SHOR: Darling, thank you for coming.

AMANDA KLOOTS: Thank you for having me.

HS: Could you walk the dogs later? Because that would be nice.

AK: I will walk your dogs. They're so sweet.

HS: They're sweet now.

AK: They warmed right up to me.

HS: I was trying to remember how we met. You probably don't remember, but I met you a few times. But we really connected at the Christmas concert at our favorite place—The Grove in Los Angeles. And I'm old enough to remember when The Grove was being built.

AK: It was a lovely evening. It was for the tree lighting. And [The Grove's owner] Rick Caruso decided to do it earlier because of the war and everything that was going on. I remember him saying, 'We need something happy to celebrate right now, and what's happier than lighting up a Christmas tree and making it snow in California and singing Christmas carols?'

HS: And Elvis was trying to catch the snow. For me, it meant a lot because, as you know, my daughter has gone through her first year of sobriety. So last Christmas was her anniversary of coming to L.A. [and] getting out of rehab. And we've known Katherine Foster [who was performing at the concert] for twenty years. Katherine used to come and stay with us in New York when Taylor was a child. It was a special night.

AK: I love that she came with you that night.

HS: This child only thinks about Christmas. And she's 30 years old now. So, seeing those children and seeing your son light up [was special]. You used to be a [Radio City] Rockette. We used to take Taylor every year to Radio City Musical Hall to see the show. Honey, I might have even seen you.

AK: You probably did. 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006.

HS: Yes, honey, yes! I was there.

AK: That's wild.

HS: We're both veteran New Yorkers, who now live in Los Angeles.

AK: I fully remember first talking to you at the L'AGENCE holiday party. And it was so lovely because I went by myself.

HS: And it's so hard to do. I hate it.

AK: I hate it. I've gotten better at it.

HS: Well, she's the best plus one.

AK: You're the best plus one.

HS: I am the best plus one. I tried to get 'Plus One Inc' as my corporation because I know that I am [good as a plus one]. You can take me anywhere.

AK: You can.

HS: I can talk to anyone. I was [seated] next to Bill Gates the other day at a dinner party for the third time. [The hosts] had said, 'Please don't bring a plus one.' I sat down, and I looked over, and I [thought], 'I know why I'm here.' You can take me anywhere. And I feel the same about you, my love.

AK: Well, thank you. That is such an honor because, in getting to know you over the last couple of months, [I've seen firsthand] you know everyone, which is why she's the best plus one. You walk into a room, and Hilary always knows somebody in the room. Going back to being scared to go somewhere by myself… At the holiday party [we met at], I walked in by myself, and I felt more comfortable because it was a shopping event. So, I was like, 'I'll just pretend to shop.' But then I started chatting with you and fell in love with you, instantly. And then we were best buddies.

HS: Besties. Every time I have an event, I call her up: 'Do you want to come?' Best plus ones.

AK: We have so many similarities.

HS: Well, she's much taller than me. I have friends who tell me, 'Please stop getting in pictures standing with Amanda.' Amanda is one foot taller than me.

AK: It doesn't help when I wear heels, too.

HS: You wear those fucking heels. I gave her some Prada shoes a couple of weeks ago. Strangely enough, even though we have a one foot difference in height, we wear the same shoe size.

AK: I'm a giant in those heels.

HS: And those heels are fabulous.

MAKING THEIR OWN WAY

AK: But you know what, Hilary? Like you, I have always had to provide for myself. Even in both of my marriages. [My late husband] Nick was different. Nick was able to get his own livelihood going.

HS: He was a working actor.

AK: He was a working actor. When I met him, he was a mess. I mean, it was one of the reasons why we kept breaking up. Because I was like, 'I want a family one day. I want a home one day. I need somebody that has a savings account, at least.' And he ended up getting a lot figured out and together. But I've always taken care of myself. I've always had that, 'I don't need anybody else [mentality].' I've had to rely on myself, and I don't mind that. I'm not saying it's bad, either way. It's just how I've always been, and I think you're the same. [I've always got] ten cylinders going because I never know if one's going to burn out, then I need to make sure that I have nine more going. And listen, there are times when I've been on dates with billionaire men, and I think, 'Well, this could be an easy life.'

HS: I like that for you.

AK: But it's not me. I'm a workhorse. I always have been.

HS: When you've had to rely on yourself for your entire adult life, and you know that things can be taken away from you — you need to know [you can survive]. It's that safety of feeling, 'I'm okay.' It would be nice to be with [someone], but I'm okay alone. And I think that's a really strong place. I have my women friends who don't feel complete, even at my age or a little younger, where they just are not complete without having a partner of some sort. And there is something with this journey that you've been on of being reliant – truly on yourself – facing the greatest thing that you can face, and at the same time raising a child; as you're going forward to bond and partner with somebody, which is what I want for you. I really do. Even though you're not going to be available for me at the [drop of a hat anymore]. The rules are – as you are on your dating journey – that no matter what…

AK: I stay available [as your plus one].

HS: You'll still stay available to go with me. We'll still go to things together. He'll just have to go.

AK: This chapter in my life, especially now being a mom and raising Elvis on my own… And I'd like to hear your opinion on this, too… With motherhood and, basically being a single mother — [I feel] that pressure [of] wanting to give [my] child the best in all ways. The best school, best life, best travel, best of everything. How did you manage that pressure?

HS: It was a tremendous amount of pressure. I was living in New York at the time, and she was going to private school, and we had a live-in nanny. …. I realized, in hindsight, that [my daughter] grew up with these helicopter parents making sure all of her needs were met. In hindsight, as she's now very much an adult and living independently and working but had many struggles… I realized… The thing that I wish I could have helped her more [with] is to make her more independent as an only child. She was just like Elvis, the best little girl in the world. She was sweet. She was easy to spoil. She was easy to indulge because she wasn't difficult. But [I should have encouraged her] to be putting her things away, no television during the week; those little things on the journey inspire the ability to self-discipline. I feel strongly that I disadvantaged her. Ultimately, that has made her life more difficult. It's a painful lesson to learn in your twenties. That is the one thing as these adored only-children [you have to watch out for]. You know, my God, who's not going to love this kid? And to that end, I assume you're better than I was — from meeting your parents and your brother and seeing that nice Ohio family that you had was very different from the dysfunctional child of an alcoholic. My mother had tremendous pain in her childhood. Her mother killed herself, and her father died when she was twelve. There was a pocket of pain that existed in my family dynamic. So those lessons of parenting [weren't bestowed upon me]. I was just trying to survive as a child. As [an adult], I was just trying – as not only a mother, but a wife and somebody who had to support the family wholly – I failed her in that way, and it made her life more difficult. So, if I could redo things [I would]. And I think you come from a much stronger base than I did. My husband was there, and I know Nick isn't, but I think – from afar – my sense of having met your family is that you [had] a strong upbringing that was healthier than mine.

THE ROLE OF MOTHERHOOD

AK: Did that unhealthy upbringing ever make you question if you wanted to be a mother? Or was that something you always wanted to be?

HS: What a great question. No. I wanted to be a career woman. I wanted to have success. I never held a baby until I brought my daughter home. I never diapered a baby. I would never boo and coo with babies. I was into dogs. So, for me, the kind of wonder of motherhood [wasn't there]. I mean, I remember when they told me I was pregnant, I went, 'Oh, fuck.'

AK: Oh wow.

HS: That's where I went; I was like, 'Oh, fuck.' And then you have the baby, and they hand her to you. I had twenty-one hours of labor and then a C-section.

AK: I had six hours of labor into a C-section.

HS: However, there's never been a greater love of my life. I always say, for me, the joy of having a child and the joy of healing myself and my relationship with my mother through the wonders of motherhood [has made it all worthwhile]. I mean I sucked it up. We had this magical life in New York, which I paid for, of private school and the bake sales and the Christmas concerts. My major relationships were with the mommy groups and all of that. I was always a bit of an anomaly [within them] because I supported the family. I was also [a part] of Hollywood. That was a little bit different. I traveled a lot [for work]. I always say I saw things in black and white, and then they became Technicolor [when I became a mother]. But it wasn't the final solution. The final solution is within. The final solution is in experience and the growing and the pain of learning and whether it's the pain of watching my daughter struggle with addiction and triumph over it or whether it's having to start my career over in my fifties, which is what happened to me, it's always the pathway to the journey. There is no end to the journey.

AK: Do you think becoming a mother helped you heal from within? Because I think, for myself, Elvis has helped me heal so much.

HS: Oh my God. I can't imagine. But it's very healing, and I think it was healing for my mother and myself.

AK: God, I bet she was so proud of you [for becoming] a mom.

HS: Oh, darling! All she wanted me to be was a real estate agent.

AK: No!

HS: To the day she died, she would say, 'You know, you would have been a good real estate agent.' She never understood what a producer was, which many people don't. And there are many different kinds of producers. But I think she'd be proud now to see what her granddaughter has done and what I've done to live alone and to try to conquer the vagaries. You know, there are people who face what you've faced or what I've faced who would lie down or crumble or give up. That's never been possible for me.

AK: I think you're right. It was never possible for me, either.

ON HELPING HER SON COPE

HS: You had to keep going.

AK: I had a one-year-old baby.

HS: You had to bury Nick and, three minutes later, feed [Elvis].

AK: Yeah, exactly. There was no time to [think about it]. It was such a blessing. Honestly, I look back, and it was a blessing to roll over every morning and have Elvis right there smiling at me. It saved me. I mean, every single day, there was no other option. Also, it was still the height of COVID. To have people over [wasn't a possibility]. It was [only my] inner circle. [There] wasn't an option of, 'I'm just going to take him to daycare all day, and I'm just going lay here and cry.' There was no [other] option [but to keep moving].

HS: Yeah, and you had to stay present, and you had to stay joyful for him. How do you help him cope with not having a father as a young man? You have a strong faith.

AK: Are you asking how I plan to? Or has it come up yet?

HS: Has it come up yet?

AK: It has come up a couple of times. And, of course, it's always at random, weird times. For instance, it's always driving to preschool. For some reason, Elvis will say something about Dada and, 'Where is he?' or something, and I'm in the car driving.

HS: Oh no.

AK: Knowing then that I have to also just drop him off and go to work and be on live television [right after]. It's this battle of emotions. It's hard. I'll give this example. This is the best way to sum up how he is understanding things right now... On Nick's birthday, I like to plan a celebration on that day. So, we get a cake. And we sing Happy Birthday to Dada. This year, we went to Del Frisco's [Steakhouse] because that was Nick and [my favorite]. Nick and I loved Del Frisco's in New York. That Del Frisco's is iconic. It's two levels. It's this huge, sprawling wood staircase looking out on Rockefeller Center in New York. Nick and I would meet there after his Broadway show. I would teach [fitness] all day, and we would have 11 o'clock dinners. It became our spot. So, I took Elvis there for Nick's birthday this year [with] my girlfriend and her fiancé. And I'm getting Elvis all dressed up in a little, cute suit and talking about how it's Dada's birthday. And he goes, 'Will he be there?'

HS: Oh. Wow.

AK: Yeah. So that's where we're at. He knows he has a dad. He knows that his dad isn't alive. And he's very frank about 'my Dada is dead.' He will say [that]. Because I've been very clear about that. I didn't want to be—

HS: 'Daddy's in heaven.'

AK: 'He's in the clouds.' I do believe in heaven. I do believe that Nick is there. I believe that Nick is everywhere. I believe that Nick watches over us every single day and is with Elvis at school and with us now. My beliefs in the spirit world have gone so much deeper than I ever thought it would be. But cognitively, I don't think he's fully aware of it right now. It's coming, though.

HS: Well, it's an interesting time for children in that there are [more examples of what family can look like] .... There are two mothers [or] two fathers. There are people who don't have a partner.

AK: In his preschool class, ironically, it's all a mom and a dad. I'm the only single parent, and that's just his class. I'm not sure about the whole school. However, my best friends are a gay couple that have a daughter, and we are always hanging out with them. So, he's already been introduced to [that family dynamic]. I have two women [friends] who are married. They have two boys that we have wonderful playdates with. So, he's been around a lot of different families.

HS: [He] probably can't connote it quite yet. But it's there in the ether.

AK: It is positive because it has helped me be like, 'Well, Elvis, they have two mommies. You have one Mommy. Our friend Artemis has two daddies.' It does help because it helps him feel less different. Right now, his family unit is just him and [me]. I will say, though, that one of the biggest blessings in being a single parent these last four years [is our bond]. And I never would have wished it on myself, obviously. I never thought it was going to be my path. I always pictured Nick and I raising a child or two children or three children together. [I remember] dreaming of that, but the bright side – because I always try to find a positive spin on things – is that our bond is so [strong]… I could cry over it.

HS: Yeah. Of course. He saved your life in so many ways.

{Kloots chokes back tears.}

AK: It's such a blessing.

HS: I'm going to get you Kleenex.

AK: I'm okay. I'm good. I'm okay. I'm so good at crying. …. Sometimes, I'm like, 'Oh my God, what would my journey be like if I didn't have Elvis?' And then I'm like, 'I don't want to think about that,' because it would have been so hard. What is wild though is… I've talked to a lot of other people in this grief community that I'm now in. I have a friend who's a new widow. She has two boys, who are ten and twelve. I always tell her, 'I'm amazed by you because I know the grief you're dealing with on your own. But I got to grieve alone.' I didn't have to grieve for my child. I didn't have to watch my child grieve. I didn't have to deal with him screaming and crying at night or asking about Dada. It's coming. I know I'll deal with it with Elvis. But I'm a completely different person now having even just four years of grief healing than I will be when I have to deal with that. So, I hold people in the highest esteem when they are grieving and their children are. …. I got to grieve so selfishly. If I wanted to cry all day, I could. If I wanted to laugh and smile all day, I could. .… It's wild the levels [of grief].

ON LIVING IN LOS ANGELES

HS: You don't know until you go on the journey. So, how are you liking Los Angeles? Are you happy that you're here now?

AK: I love it. I love it now.

HS: I love it, too.

AK: So much, in fact, that when I go back to New York – even just for a weekend – [when] I'm flying into that city, and I see it from above, [I think], 'How did I ever live in this city?' …. I'm glad I lived there, though. I think living there – and I'm sure you would agree with this – it gives you that spirit and that energy of [I can do anything]. It really is true: 'If you can make it there, you can make it anywhere.' You really can. And I'm so grateful for those years I had there. It really did turn me into the person I am today. It gave me so many life lessons. But I love L.A., now – especially being a mom. It's a lot easier. I always wanted a home. I always wanted a driveway and a car. I came kicking and screaming, but now I'm happy I'm in L.A.

HS: Yeah.

AK: I think [it prepared me] for this chapter in my life. After doing Broadway for fifteen years, then making my own fitness business; then moving here, doing the talk show I've been doing, and everything else I've done, [it makes sense]. I can look back at my career and life and all those years I was on Broadway and doing film and television in New York – all of that prepared me for what I'm doing now. Thank God I had those years.

HS: Well, [it's] that discipline. People don't understand. I'm on the other side of the camera, but I always say, 'It takes [tremendous emotional fortitude] to be a performer and the discipline and emotional journey [of], Am I working? Am I not working?' Then, when you are working, [you have to be on]. People always say, 'You have an alchemy with talent.' I'm like, 'Yeah, because I understand how hard it is.' …. It's a tough journey, and if you can learn to be [resilient, you can make it work]. I think it's what we all have had to [learn] for the last four years [because of the pandemic]. People who haven't been mutable [haven't fared as well]. …. If you haven't been able to look at these years and figure out how to ride the wave [of change] with grace and how to switch gears and say, 'Well, that's not working. Let me try something else,' you're not going to make it. I think New York and Los Angeles teach that lesson. Sometimes, it's a painful lesson.

ON PRODUCING IN HOLLYWOOD

AK: I know you've had many different careers, but would you say producer is—

HS: Producer is what I've done for the last twenty years. I started in the business as a representative. I represented actors, writers, and directors for twenty years.

AK: What are some of [your] favorite things that you've been a part of producing?

HS: Probably [my] favorite movie, and one of the most difficult I've ever made, was a movie [released in 2006] called 'Children of Men,' which is a post-apocalyptic movie [by Oscar-winning director] Alfonso Cuarón, who did 'Gravity' [in 2013] and 'Roma' [in 2018]. He's a famous Mexican director. It was a book I optioned, and it took me eight years to get it made. It was poorly-released at the time that it came out. It was at the Venice Film Festival. You do one thing, and you go, 'This is my Oscar.' As a producer, you don't get to say that often. I was at tea the other day with Glenn Close because I just worked with her [on director Lee Daniel's 'The Deliverance']. We were talking about the film, and I said, 'Yeah, they fucked up the release, and it's difficult not to get that Oscar when [the projects] are few and far between that you were involved [in].' There's commerce. There are things that you hope will work out. [Some] politics go on with all this award stuff, and it is all kind of ridiculous. She goes, 'Well, I've been nominated for eight Oscars.' I said, 'Exactly, you've been in eight films. You've had eight projects, and probably more, that were Oscar-worthy. As a producer, we don't get up to bat every year.' So, it is what it is. But ['Children of Men'] is a special movie. It was based on some early investigations into what we are doing to the world in terms of [global warming]. They didn't know it was global warming, at that time, but [it surrounds] environmental [concerns] and the pollutants that we're putting into the world. It's a world where there's great infertility, and all of a sudden, a woman becomes pregnant. It becomes this race to see who, what, why. You have a fallow field, and eventually, it bears fruit again, and that's the hope that comes into the universe after all is lost. I'm proud of it.

AK: I've heard of it. I will now watch it.

HS: You should watch it. It's funny because when it was released, Alfonso and I, [said], 'Oh God. They're fucking up the release, and [who is going to] see this fucking movie?' He said, 'In time, in time.' I'm sitting there sobbing. And in time [was right]. It's taught in film schools. It's always on these lists of top ten great movies. It's an important film. That was nice. You don't get those that often.

AK: Because you've done this for so long, you know all the ins and outs of this world of Hollywood land. I don't. I'm slowly learning it, but also – and this is just who I've always been – I keep myself very much removed [from it for] the good and bad…

HS: I'll be your mom-ager.

AK: When you say—the release was fucked up…. Who does that land on? Not specifically your movie, but in general.

HS: Listen, the world is so different right now. The release concept is almost Antediluvian now that we have streamers. What happened to me [was that] there had been a changing of the guard at the top of the studio. And the movie was a very unusual film. So, they released it in England, and it did well, but the reviews out of the Venice Film Festival [were mixed]. Some people understood it. Some people didn't. There was a changing of the guard at the top and it costs a lot of money to distribute a movie. …. This was not an inexpensive movie even in today's terms. I remember sitting there talking to the head of distribution and marketing on the 26th of December. They had opened it in six theaters on Christmas Day. It is a movie about, potentially, the end of the world and mankind. Although [author] P.D. James is very Christian, and it is, of course, about hope – it's a little dark for Christmas.

AK: You want to release [films from] Thanksgiving to Christmas, right? It should have been released for all the awards [consideration].

HS: That happens all the time. Not that I am a marketing genius. I leave that to people who know what they're doing, but you can look back at history to see where things went wrong with a movie and so much money [on the line]. If you're an actor, you can say, 'Well, I did that movie, but I'm going to get another chance.' But the world has changed. We're not releasing movies. We're not going to the theater. It's mutate or die, baby.

HOW THE ENTERTAINMENT BUSINESS HAS CHANGED

AK: It's affecting movies and releases; actors and producers?

HS: One hundred percent. As producers, we need to accept that most of our business is about streaming. [We need] to embrace it and figure out how to make that all work. It's not all that easy. It's a different time in business. I wonder when I see these young people [pursuing their dreams in our industry] – because I mentor a lot of young women and men – I [think], 'How are we going to survive? Will it be a world of influencers?' I don't know what is going to go on with that, with social media, TikTok, and streaming. For long-form entertainment, we're in a difficult time. I'm greatly concerned about children's mental health [and the role social media plays in that]. My concern is [people's attention spans after] looking at a phone for 15 seconds – as opposed to a film for two hours or an hour of a documentary about something worthy. The inability of people to focus [is an ongoing problem]. .... I'm concerned about what that does to children [with] depression. …. But that said, I believe that talent will win. At the end of the day, it is about the work, and that is what I've always been attracted to. That's what I've always believed in and that's what I support. I only wish I could make some of these films that make a ton of money in scatological humor. They do well. I happen to be someone who is a bit of a vulgarian in the way I speak and my humor. But at the core of it, I have an artist's way, and that's what I resonate with.

AK: If somebody comes to you with a project, how do you discern if you want to be a part of it? Or not?

HS: I'm more discerning now than I had been during that dark period in my career, where I [would] attach myself to things. I don't do that any longer. I don't take on spec projects unless it's something I believe in.

AK: Spec projects? Meaning?

HS: In that, they aren't set up; they need to be developed; the script needs work, or it needs to get cast, or you need to find a director. What a producer does is find the money. People are funny, where they've gone, 'You will produce the movie.' And I'm like, 'Yes, but the movie probably won't get made. I won't get paid if it doesn't get made.' People are like, 'Yeah, that's Hilary. [She'll] just work for free.'

AK: Got it. You're at a [point] in your life where you're like, 'Come to me when it is a fully packaged deal.'

HS: Or pay me to package it and/or I have to have passion for the elements. Do I love the director? Do I love the material? Do I love the subject matter? Is this something I can get behind and try to make a difference in? And that's where I've found myself.

AK: Sorry, I'm learning something, too. So, you also are somebody someone can say, 'Hilary, I have this idea. I'm going to pay you to package it; to hire and fire, accordingly; to create something that we can then go [make]. Hilary is the producer, and we're taking this to Warner Bros.?'

HS: In general, you usually work for free until it comes to fruition, but I also have been paid. Unless it's something I feel has the right pedigree, I don't get involved.

AK: Oh my god. That's crazy to think that you—

HS: Work for years on something.

AK: I'm sure producers do this all the time where they're working for free in hopes that it pays off, but at the same time, it may never.

HS: Correct. I'm at a point in my life where if I work, I work… I mean, I need to work. I need to make money, and I'm always looking for exterior forms of income streams. But I also know that my currency in the film and television [industry] needs to be protected, and I am protective of that.

AK: Do you think, right now, everyone in Hollywood is [afraid] to try and [afraid] to take on something new?

HS: One hundred percent. And rightly so. As I said, it's a whole new landscape. The financial algorithms don't work anymore. Does Hulu only want to do series? [They don’t] want to do long-form? But in fact, they've done brilliant long-forms. How the math works is different [than it used to be]. Netflix just went through a huge change in that they probably aren't going to be doing theatrical releases. That's the expectation. They know what works for them. And not to say they won't, but it has to be special circumstances. …. [And what they're buying at any given moment] changes. Every year, somebody new comes in. They look at everything; they throw everything out. You have to think to yourself, 'I'm on a surfboard, and I'm trying to ride the waves, and I'm trying to stay upright.' When I was younger, when I was your age, I would sit there and go, 'So-and-so just left the business. It's shocking. I love the business so much, and I would [never].' I've never been uber-successful, but I'm still here. And I – now – understand it because it can be soul-crushing. It's soul-crushing if you don't have a support system and a center and people who you care for and care for you.

ADVICE FOR ASPIRING PRODUCERS

AK: Would that be your advice if you were mentoring somebody? I'm in the business, and I do love producing. I love creating ideas and seeing them come to life, but if somebody [wants] to do what you did or have done – what advice would you give them?

HS: I would advise someone to work in an agency. Go work for a director or producer as an assistant. Go through the systems and/or I probably would advise them to come up through physical production because I think some physical [production helps with understanding] the math of how to keep it going; how much does this cost, and how many days [filming] does this mean? That was something [I needed to learn]. I—boom—became a producer. Not overnight, but I went from being a representative to being a producer, and I was like, 'What the fuck am I doing?' I figured it out, and I had a specific skill, which was my ability to handle talent [and] my ability to access talent through the agencies and the management companies. The one thing everybody knows — when people work with me, one hundred percent — they are going to come out of that experience feeling well taken care of and protected creatively and otherwise. There are many different types of producers, so I try to add that to my little bag of tricks. It's served me well because people can trust that these mega-artists are going to be satisfied with the experience. We all know what can happen when something isn't well produced. [It's important] to not be afraid of learning your stuff on the fiscal side and the technical side. That's the best advice that I can give. I'm not saying, 'Try to be a master of all things,' but try to have a lack of fear of everything. So, go work in an agency and understand how that works. Apprentice yourself. Do you have an interest in the creative thing? Apprentice yourself to set photographers, so you understand what's going on. But it does start with the material. And if you don't read, and you don't understand how to read, [you'll struggle]. Lucky for me, I was well educated. I was a history/English major with sociology as my minor at Smith College, which now nobody goes to because it's solely a girls' school. .... You have to understand material and finance.

AK: It's a lot.

HS: [My advice would be] choose a lane and try to figure out what you have an affinity for.

AK: I'm going to add to yours for you. I would say that you're such a great example of 'Get yourself out there. Meet people. Keep those connections. Walk into a room and find somebody to talk to.' You're so good at that, and it's admirable to see. One of the reasons why I love being your plus one is to watch it.

HS: It's also because I've been around so long. I usually walk into a room and know a lot of people. Maybe I don't remember their names all the time, which is always my problem.

AK: You do, though. You're like, 'Amanda, this is da-da–da. She's married to da-da–da.' They do this and da-da–da.

HS: That's served us well.

AK: It's fun. You show up. Even if it's for twenty minutes, you show up. That's something that I think kids growing up in this day need to learn. You show up. You say yes to the RSVP. You show up, and you go.

HS: Listen, I go to fifty percent of what I should go to because—

AK: It's hard to get dressed.

HS: And drive and double park.

AK: And [put on] make-up.

HS: 'How far downtown do I have to go?' …. But I do think, again, it goes back to the [idea]: 'It's six o'clock, and I'm off the clock.' No, you're never off the clock [in our industry].

AK: Yeah, it's true. [Also,] I'm never going to meet anybody sitting on the couch. That's what I – even in my dating world – that's how I've thought [of it], like, 'Amanda.' I'm not on an app. So, I'm not going to meet somebody by sitting at home.

HS: No, you're not. You're going to get fixed up by someone. I think we talked about that at the L'AGENCE party [when we reconnected].

AK: Yes. You've been a great matchmaker. A hopeful matchmaker. But honestly, that's what I did start doing. I just started [asking] – anytime I would meet anybody – [I would ask if they knew anyone they could set me up with]. I mean, we were talking for twenty minutes, and I was like, 'Do you know anybody? You seem like you know everyone. Do you know anybody?'

HS: You have to find tall, wealthy men. You have to find a tall guy who you don't have to support.

AK: It was very funny, though. Hilary, I remember that night, you were like, 'Well, there is one. He's just going through a divorce, so we need to at least give him a couple of weeks.' And I was like, 'Yeah, that's good. At least a couple of weeks is good.'

HS: Let's see what happens.

AK: Yeah, let's see what happens. 'We'll reach back [out in] February.'

HS: Exactly.

AK: So funny. But it is a very admirable quality that you have. That is a skill that is slowly leaving this world. The ability to show up.

HS: People don't show up in person [anymore]. God bless Taylor Swift. She got everybody in the world [to go to her concert]. You too, Beyonce and Madonna. [They] got people out. To rise from behind the screen and engage. It's so difficult. What do these kids do? It's so expensive to go out to dinner. Nobody knows how to cook. It's expensive to go to a movie. I feel for the world, and I think that a lot of the dysfunction that we're seeing in this country today is due to a combination of what the economy is for Joe Public. I know how I feel. I think twice before I go out to lunch or dinner. If a girlfriend says, 'Oh, meet me at Craig's,' I think not.

ON DATING AS A SINGLE MOTHER

AK: As a parent, I'm adding at least $100 onto my bill because of babysitting. Also, I treat my babysitters well because it's my child, and when I think about a dollar amount to keep my child safe, healthy, and happy – there is no dollar amount.

HS: That's the most important employee you have.

AK: It is. And for [Elvis] to feel safe, and for me to be able to walk out of the house without him going, 'No, mama, no,' [it’s worth it]. But. You're right. On top of [the cost of going out], this is why, honestly, I started hating the dating app. Because I was meeting a man that I didn't even know that I maybe texted a few times.

HS: And you usually hadn't spoken to…

AK: That I hadn't spoken to [on the phone]. But I'm an energy person. So, I have to meet people in person to get a sense of if I'm on board with this plan or not. I would be leaving the house, and I would be paying either my manny [aka male nanny] to stay longer or another babysitter to come in… to walk out of the house [in order]to [meet] somebody that I had no idea if they were going to be of value.

HS: Or worth the valet parking.

AK: All of it. I would leave the date and I would instantly get in my car and start sobbing… because… [It’s] not that they weren't nice. [It’s] not that they weren't kind. They always were, but I knew instantly they weren't for me, and I had just spent an hour of my time talking to them and two hours with a babysitter. By the time you leave, and you have the date, and you come home, it's two hours on the other end. It was just getting to be this monotonous anxiety-depression that I was dealing with. So, I stopped the apps because I was like, 'I can't do this anymore.'

HS: You try the apps at my age, honey.

AK: Oh gosh, I can't even imagine.

HS: Oh, sweetie. It is not pleasant.

AK: It's not worth it for me. So, I can't imagine how much it would not be worth it [for you].

HS: It’s crazy.

WHAT’S NEXT

HS: What does the rest of this year look like for you? What [do you still hope for] in terms of the business, in terms of motherhood, in terms of what you want for this [next chapter of your life]? I always say, 'I'm on the back nine.' So, I know what the back nine is for me.

AK: I have my own fitness company, and I love teaching so much because I love helping people. I want to continue helping people, whether that's creating more content or writing another book or whatever it is. I feel like there's so much healing in this world that needs to happen. I've been on a healing journey, and I truly think that healing never ends. …. As life continues, healing continues. So, I'd love to focus on that. I love creating projects, and I have about ten in my head that I would love to see happen. It's a passion of mine. I love thinking about an idea and then putting it out there to see if it can happen. And I'm pretty good at being fearless [with people and saying], 'I don't care who you are. I'm going to tell you my idea. You might think I'm crazy, but maybe [so-in-so] won't.'

HS: I was talking earlier about making 'Children of Men,' which took me [eight] years to make, and after it was made, it did get some great reviews and it was prestigious. As time went on, it became [even] more so. And people [have said], 'Why didn't you bring that to me?' And I said, 'I did, as a matter of fact.' And so, I think you just need to stay at it. I think that is your higher self, and use everything that you came to this business [with]—the talent, the beauty, the humor, and the spirit—and now this learning [and] emotional journey that you've been on. If you bring that authenticity to this business, you're not going to lose. Actors and directors and people who are true artists—what are they attracted to [is] authenticity. They may not be able to articulate what they feel about the people they're in business with, but they instinctively know. They instinctively know who is there for them. Why is Tom Hanks… Tom Hanks? Because throughout his entire history, [he’s remained true to who he is] and what he’s stood for, and [he's] resonated both as an actor and as a producer. So, stay faithful to that because that will always serve you moving forward.

AK: Thank you. What about you?

HS: Honey, I'm on my fucking back nine.

AK: No, I know you are, but you're such a great busybody.

HS: I'm ready for anything. You know, bring it on, baby! My tag on my Instagram is 'the accidental influencer.' Bring on the influencing. Bring on the movie producing. Bring on television producing. Bring it on. I'm open to any and all worlds as I go down this journey. I'm not stopping. Maybe I can't wear the high heels I gave you anymore, but I can still stay upright. It's continuing this journey; trying to do good work [and] make a few shekels along the way.

[Shor pauses.]

HS: And world peace.

AK: Anyone would be so lucky to have you in their corner on a project.

HS: I'm your mom-ager.

AK: I'm serious, though.

HS: Well, I do think I know everything.

AK: But you do know everyone and everything. You've had so much experience in the business and in life in general. You are such a baller.

HS: So, what are we doing on Saturday night?

AK: We're going to the Dodgers game.

HS: We're going to the Mets game. Remember, we're going to the Mets game, and they happen to be playing at the Dodgers.

AK: Yes, perfect.

HS: As soon as we finish this, I'll get the third ticket.