In Conversation:

Jaime Ray Newman & Lindsay Price

Lindsay Price and Jaime Ray Newman met as co-stars on ABC’s “Eastwick” during a special time in their lives.

“We were the stars of a network show and all we cared about was our love lives,” Price jokes while catching up with Newman. “I mean, it wasn’t all we cared about. I probably cared about it a little bit more than you did.” She pauses. “But you cared about it.”

The two laugh.

“I’d broken up [with] a pretty serious boyfriend,” Price continues. “You and I spoke about him quite a lot. I think you were one of the most vocal people. You were like, ‘He’s not for you. I love you, Lindsay. But he is not your guy. This is not a match.’”

Explains Newman, “I have known this person for a long time; I was just getting to know you and I just knew that you had better things ahead.”

They both did. Personally and professionally.

Since their single days in 2009, Price and Newman have both been married (to chef Curtis Stone and filmmaker Guy Nattiv, respectively); they’ve each had two children; and they’ve accomplished a considerable amount outside the realm of acting. 

While Price opened Maude, a Beverly Hills-based restaurant with Stone, Newman won an Oscar for “Skin,” a short film she produced with Nattiv, who also co-wrote and directed the project.

Once upon a time, Price and Newman were dreaming about what might be on the horizon. Fifteen years later, the women have gathered at Newman’s Los Angeles home to reflect on that unique era for the kick-off of The Retaility’s new interview series: “In Conversation.”

In-between reminiscing about how they met their significant others, Price and Newman also discuss how motherhood has influenced them, their thoughts on aging in Hollywood, and everything in between.

They also tackle weighty topics like their respective documentaries.

Price has spent years working on a currently untitled documentary about her mother, a Korean refugee, and her heritage. Meanwhile, Newman and Nattiv produced a short documentary, “Life Unexpected,” about their path to parenthood after navigating the loss of a child.

Listen in as Price and Newman take it from here…

LINDSAY PRICE: It’s so interesting because so much has changed in our industry since we were originally working together. Everything has changed.

JAIME RAY NEWMAN: It is a different world. I don’t recognize it from when I came into it.

LP: I know. It makes me sad a little bit. I know that there are great things that have changed, but I miss [elements of the way things were]. I really do.

JRN: I think the inclusion of body shapes and sizes is amazing, but I think because of social media there is this added layer. I feel like actors are not acting anymore. I feel like it's all about the self-tape rather than being in class, studying, being on set, learning the craft of it rather than the quick selfie tape or reel on Instagram.

LP: I miss it like you would miss a great love. The feeling of walking into the room. I remember when we started working together on ‘Eastwick,’ those years were when I was leading shows…

JRN: Like ‘Lipstick Jungle’…

LP: It was an active stage of my career. I remember thinking, ‘I think this is as good as it gets, but there’s much more ahead.’ But then everything shifted. We got canceled fast. ‘Lipstick Jungle’ got canceled because everyone was doing DVR. The numbers were crazy, but nobody was watching it live – and they couldn’t do the ratings [at the time].

JRN: They had a hotline. I remember on that Thursday morning calling the Nielsen’s rating hotline to find out, ‘Are we alive tomorrow? Or are we a sinking ship?’

LP: Was that your first series regular?

JRN: It was the first pilot that ever went. I had done six pilots that had never gone. I remember Nikki Finke, Deadline, and all the gossip about what was going to go and what wasn’t going to go. And so I was like, ‘I can’t deal with this. I’m getting out of town. I can't be in L.A. when all of this chit-chat is happening. It’s too anxiety provoking,’ and I went to Israel for a month and that’s when I met [my husband] Guy. Do you remember this?

LP: That’s where you met him.

JRN: I remember Rebecca [Romijn] set you up a couple of times. We won't say names. I remember a very famous tenor. … That summer, we had been picked up and I stayed with you in New York.

LP: That’s right! I was Googling you [to prepare for today]. I went through a rabbit hole because there were so many cool things to watch. Thank you internet. It helped with [remembering] this timeline. There are paparazzi photos of us in New York. Yeah, you did [stay with me]. Was I heartbroken [from breaking up with my then-boyfriend] at that point?

JRN: Oh yeah. It was rough.

LP: The advice you gave me was, ‘Don’t try to put a square peg in a round whole. You’re just such different people with different priorities.’ And the truth is, I wasn’t even really in love, but my ego was crushed. I was like, ‘You’re breaking up with me?’ That’s how I felt.

JRN: ‘How dare you! Don’t you know what you have?’

LP: And then an article came out. It was all US Magazine at the time… because there was no social and an article came out that said, 'Lindsay Price gets dumped and has her show canceled in the same week.' {laughs} I remember sitting on my couch and reading this article, like, 'Oh my God. Everybody knows that I’ve had the shittiest week.’ I remember feeling my value just completely drain, you know?

THE EARLY YEARS

JRN: Let me ask you a question. Speaking of work and value, which I understand on a very deep level, you started acting when you were a wee girl. How old were you when you first started auditioning?

LP: I think my first commercials were at four or five.

JRN: Wow. What motivated your parents? Because [your brother] Bryan also did it. The two of you.

LP: My dad was in advertising, but only radio, and my mom is a North Korean refugee and nobody was in the entertainment industry. We lived in Sierra Madre and they had a department store there called Hinshaw’s. I was in ballet and they had a little charm school where everyone could learn their table manners and also there was a little fashion show. I was in the fashion show and I remember getting a little spark and someone told my mom, ‘She’s so cute. She should model.’ And that was a definite no. And pageants? No way. I kept on with my ballet and I was in a dance class and somebody saw me in the window of this dance class and then approached my mom and said, ‘Would you be willing to let her be in our campaign?’ Since it was the second time, she was like, ‘Maybe I should just let her do it.’ And then someone saw that picture in Time Magazine and then someone called who was an agent.

JRN: It was in Time Magazine? Do you remember this shoot?

LP: Yeah. It was strange. I was four. I thought it was a real dance class. It was a beautiful ballet studio. There were older, professional ballerinas there and I remember thinking, 'This is real, but it's not real, and I don't care because it feels real,' and I think that's what acting is, right? The chance to play make-believe on a bigger stage where the stakes are higher. Then I kept doing commercials. My mom was like, ‘How is this happening? I don’t want to drive to Los Angeles.’ But it kept happening.

JRN: Was your mom working at the time?

LP: She and my grandmother had this little side hustle. They would decorate the ladies from church’s houses. My grandmother, my dad’s mom, was a Pasadena lady with pearls and the bouffant and all of that. [She was] so classy. Anyway. But everyone also knew, Jaime, that there was no way that I would ever make it as an actress because there was no one of color on primetime television.

JRN: Wow.

LP: And particularly, not Asians. I remember an agent saying to my mom and dad: ‘She’s super cute, but she’s always going to be the one that fills out the…’

JRN: This is why it’s better now.

LP: It’s so much better now, but to be honest, right now, I’m kind of caught in this weird thing. Because I’m half, they feel like because they’re going to make ‘the right move’ and do this positive casting, they might as well go all the way; so I’m like a white girl now and I’m always riding that line. I always rode that line, which is why I decided at a young age, ‘I don’t give a shit what you think that I look like or what your perceptions are; I’m going to be the best actor in the room,’ and most of the jobs that I got could have been anyone.

JRN: I remember when you got cast [on ‘Eastwick]. We vaguely knew each other through auditioning, but I didn't really know you. A friend of mine, when you got cast… my friend was like, ‘Oh, you’re acting with Sandra Bullock!’ I was like, ‘What do you mean?’ And he goes, ‘She’s Sandra Bullock.’

LP: That’s the nicest compliment.

JRN: He was like, ‘If she was given the opportunities, she would be the biggest star.’ And it was true. I didn’t realize how funny you are. I didn’t realize how heartbreaking you are. The breadth of range I got to witness watching you was so fucking cool. Now I can see that—when you have nothing to lose, when you’re just like, ‘The best actor is going to win this. I can’t be the little petite blonde chick, so it’s just going to be the best actor and I’m going to fight you for that.’

LP: Things changed with ‘Crazy Rich Asians.’ That’s where the needle got moved. Because after ‘Eastwick,’ I made a choice to [shift focus] because I had Hudson [in 2011] and it was the first time since I was five that I cared about something more than my career. And it was a choice. I thought I'd try to do pilot season. I remember breastfeeding in a waiting room and then my mom would sneak in and grab the baby. I remember doing pilot season that year. He was born in November and I went to pilot season in January and it was three a day. I was always an actor, so I thought, 'I have to keep doing this. I'm not going to stop,’ but he had my heart and, physically, I just didn’t feel like it was going to ever make sense to be on set twelve to fifteen hours a day.

JRN: I mean, Rebecca had just given birth to twins [while we were filming ‘Eastwick’].

LP: Which is why I thought I could do it. She made it look easy somehow.

JRN: She's superhuman, right?

LP: I tried. I don’t like to do anything unless I can be in a hundred percent. I can do it, but I don’t like it and there will never be anything more important than your real life, which is family.

JRN: But sometimes, especially since you’ve been doing this since you were five, that’s not necessarily obvious.

LP: Right. It’s true. And also Curtis was the love that I was waiting for and I also knew that I could never have that relationship – the relationship I wanted – because I was constantly [working]. In this business and as an actor, you always have to put it first. I just yesterday had a conversation [with my reps]. I’m 100 percent ready now to commit and go ‘beast mode,’ as they say. She said, ‘You need to be able to [drop everything]. Like, if I call you tonight, you’re going tonight to wherever it is. You’re a good wifey. You’re a good mommy, but do you want to be a movie star? Because you should be [one].’ I was like, ‘Yes, I do want to. I really do.’ I’m ready to have that expression because if I don’t have the outlet, then I’m not in alignment with who I truly am either, you know? That became obvious when these little people started to have their own paths. But it’s a good thing for them to see their mom have this passion and have wins and have that be completely normal to them because otherwise, they’re going to think that women are there to make their chicken nuggets and pick up their socks.

JRN: Some people [want it] to be all-encompassing and to be defined by that. The amount of respect that I have for that now–having two kids—it’s amazing.

LP: It’s totally possible.

JRN: But I am not capable of it. No. You were married before to a producer. Were you always with someone in the business?

LP: That’s just who I met, you know?

MEETING MR. CURTIS STONE

JRN: Was Curtis your first partner who was not involved in this [business] at all? Did he understand what you did? Did he understand the crazy fucking [world we work in]? I mean, his life is crazy too, but…

LP: I dated other people who were not actors or producers. Lots of musicians. Remember I was always like, 'If they're duct-taping their shoes together or, like, if they’re asking me to start their car, come over tonight.’ {laughter} I just had so much going on in my life but I’m so blessed to have grown up with an abundance of knowing who I am. I’m not trying to fill any holes. But I still needed to have that romance in my life. I was in love with love and I always wanted to have that. I don’t care if [they have money]… like… ‘I’ll buy your groceries, you know? Just come on over.’ Curtis was someone that [I was set up with].

JRN: It was your publicist, right?

LP: I was 33 or 34. After that breakup, I had a few failed setups. My publicist who I’ve known [for a long time set us up]. When I moved to New York, after that divorce, my dad also had cancer at the time and I was working with these ladies [Brooke Shields and Kim Raver] on the show ‘Lipstick Jungle,’ who were ten years older. They said to me, ‘You need to consider freezing your eggs.’ Do you remember this? Maybe we never spoke about it.

JRN: I don’t know if we spoke about it.

LP: They were like, ‘You can’t try to choose someone because there’s a clock.’

JRN: People were talking about that then?

LP: Yeah and I was like, ‘What are you talking about?’ I had no idea that was even a thing.

JRN: That is amazingly ahead of their time because back then nobody was talking about that. I mean, maybe people were doing it, but it wasn't a discussion.

LP: Maybe it was sort of an actress thing because you don't want to have to say no to a job because you're worried about time. And that's a very real thing. So I was looking into freezing my eggs and this publicist had been with me for all my single years in New York City. She’d been with me through all this stuff with my dad and supported me. She’s a friend. She knew me. She said, ‘Look, I met your husband.’ He was working on a show called ‘Take Home Chef,’ which is so cheeky because he’s this Aussie guy. He was a chef. He had a Michelin Star and wound up working for Marco Pierre White, who now we know because everyone is all chef crazy. [Curtis] got on this show cast out of London. He thought he was going to take a trip to L.A. and do one episode and they shot a thousand episodes or something nuts where he'd meet a girl in a supermarket and would say, 'Oh, I see you have basil and some tomatoes in your cart, let me take you home and I'll show you what to do with it.' {laughs} And he'd make this gourmet meal and the husband would come home, like, 'What's going on in here?' And that was the show.

JRN: Was he in his underwear?

LP: No. That was another chef. The naked chef. But that wasn’t him. Anyway, my friend said, ‘I met the Take Home Chef and I know this sounds weird, but he's your husband.' He surfed. He was artistic. The preparation, the elements, and the story you want to tell on a plate [are] just to move someone. We do the same thing, but it's two totally different things. But the thing about him that I needed – but didn’t know that I needed – was he is such… The classic Aussie male is a specific type of chivalry and maybe a little of that old school, ‘I’m the guy, I’m going to take care of my woman.’ I needed someone to be like, ‘Sit down. I’ve got it. I want to take care of you.’ So yeah, we went on this blind date and it was just before apps… {laughs} Thank God. A year later, we’re living together and having a baby. It was fast.

JRN: I didn’t realize it was so fast.

LP: It was fast. Which meant that it was no time to… we’d have to go back and get to know each other while raising a child.

JRN: So did you know immediately after you met him, like, ‘This feels right,’ or did it take time?

LP: With all the talk of freezing eggs and career stuff, I think I had something in my mind that was a bit like, ‘I should consider each person I date as a potential [partner]. Is this someone that would be a good partner?’ But I walked into our blind date late. Super late. Because I didn’t feel like I needed to be set up. I was 45 minutes late. I was at home watching [‘Glee’ on] TV and then he texted and I was like, ‘Oh, crap. The date.’ By that time, I’d gone through so many twists and turns in my romantic life that I was shut down in a way.

JRN: Which is good. That’s the time when you’re not putting pressure on it.

LP: It’s like the audition room, right? They like you more energetically—

JRN: If you don’t need ‘em.

LP: Exactly. And it wasn't a put-on. I just was like, 'I'll check this out. It's interesting that she thinks this is going to be my husband.' I ran in [wearing] jeans because I literally just put on heels and did the quick [zhuzhing] in the bathroom and he was sitting at the bar with a glass of rose and this collarless leather jacket and the spikey hair and I was like, ‘Oof. As if this is the guy. This guy reeks of trouble. He just looks like trouble. He’s handsome.’ Anyway, I walked up to the bar and he had Googled me, so he knew who I was and he said, ‘You know what? It’s okay you’re late, but we should sit down and instead of sitting across [from one another], because I feel nervous, let’s sit side by side in the booth.’ And so we did and I was attracted to him, but it was a strange thing that happened. Sitting next to him felt so comfortable and familiar. I could almost see, strangely, that we were going to be together. It was pretty powerful. We closed down the restaurant and I was like, ‘Well, where are we going next? Are we going to have a drink? Is there going to be a kiss? What’s happening?’ And he said, ‘Thank you so much and hopefully, I’ll see you soon,’ and he walked down the street. He [later explained], ‘I really liked you and I just didn’t want to blow it.’ He [thought], 'That went well. I'll just keep it there,' and then we spent a lot of time e-mailing. I mean, it was nothing like what you and Guy went through. Holy cow. That's a whole other thing. But [Curtis] was traveling a lot and we had to write a lot to each other. Then, when we finally saw each other on a regular basis, we went pedal to the metal. I knew. I did know.

JRN: Were you cautious? Were you super protective of your heart?

LP: Unfortunately, my fatal flaw is that I’m never protective of my heart.

JRN: That’s a great thing. It serves you well in your art and you’re married with two kids now, so you’re okay. That’s your layer of protection.

LP: I guess, I guess. Having kids is the worst level of—

JRN: Vulnerability. That’s true.

LP: But I think I – at least – let myself be open to how the story was going to go and then it went. I’m glad. It was the right decision.

JRN: Did your family like him initially?

LP: Loved. My mom had his cookbook open on her counter. Strangely, you know how they say you marry your dad. I think—

JRN: You’re the opposite?

LP: I think I married the qualities that my mom has. Because Curtis and my mom are very similar. They're diehard loyal, and extremely candid. They can be hard on people, but they have bigger hearts than anyone you've ever met. … So they got along like a house on fire. My dad loved him, too. I’ve always been a daddy’s girl. For him, it’s, ‘Is your position in the world spiritually sound? You better be a safe place for her.’ That was his main thing.

PRICE’S HERITAGE & UPBRINGING

JRN: Can we pivot a little bit? In terms of your Korean heritage, I’m curious about that and how you feel. Your mother’s story; your parents' story is unbelievable. I knew their story [about being raised together as siblings after being orphaned during the Korean War], but I was crying watching something you posted on Instagram the other day – about your mother and the journey that she went through after the war. Guy’s grandparents [were] holocaust survivors and me being Jewish – and identifying with the struggles of my people. Where does that fit into your life? Do you feel like you’re connected to it? How do you identify with it? I’m curious about that. And do your kids feel connected to it?

LP: Yes. There are two reasons. She is the matriarch of our family. She's such a strong personality and what she's been through has informed so much of who I am that there's no way…

JRN: It makes me want to cry. I look at your mom and I don’t know why, but what a woman.

LP: She is an incredible person. Also, after having become a mother, [I’m that much more inspired by her]. When I was seven months pregnant with Hudson, I took her back to Korea and we shot a documentary that I haven’t finished yet. I needed to know. [I told her,] ‘I’ve known your story, Mom, my whole life growing up, but I need to know – becoming a mother – what you went through.’

JRN: Had you ever been to Korea before?

LP: No. And it’s complicated because – especially growing up at such a young age in a business where you have to face your aesthetics – I knew that people looked at me and saw that I was a Korean-American, but she came here when she was thirteen and in a lot of ways, what we realized on that trip was that she felt like the country had betrayed her. There was a connection between her mother abandoning her and what happened with the war and her relationship to her Korean-ness. My brother and I spoke fluently until we went to school.

JRN: You speak fluent Korean?

LP: We did, but then when we went to school, she said, ‘We won’t speak it anymore,’ because she didn’t want us to have a disadvantage. 

JRN: Do you remember?

LP: She taught me important phrases, but I want to know more. So there’s the Korean heritage side of it, which you realize the older you get, we're all children of immigrants. There are a lot of second-gen Americans in our age category.

JRN: It's interesting because our parents and our grandparents wanted us to be American as much as possible. Like, forget the home country. You are American. 

LP: My mom’s Korean-ness aside, the fact that she was abandoned; that she saw her father die; her mother left her shortly thereafter with a baby brother and it was up to her to not only take care of herself at five but take care of a sibling; having had kids – and knowing that I was going to be a mother at that time, [I wanted to know] how [she did it]? I was terrified of having to take care of a life as a full-grown adult. Not terrified. But there's a lot of trepidation. It's a lot of responsibility. She just [embraced] it and it all comes down to love. If you love, you’re limitless, and she loved him.

JRN: What was the age difference between [your mother and father]?

LP: They don’t know for sure. She doesn’t even know how old she is because there was no birth certificate, but [there was] probably a 2-3 years difference. But she remembers putting him on her back and crossing a river. It's one of her earliest memories, which makes me think, ‘My gosh, did they travel with other children or people?’ To eventually get to Seoul and be in an orphanage. So there’s this great mystery. We’ve been trying to piece it together. Especially since my father passed, she wants to tell the story and she’s ready all these years later. It’s beautiful.

JRN: What did you find out when you went there [filming]?

LP: So much. We spoke woman to woman about motherhood and what it means and how she was such an extraordinary mother having been abandoned by her own. We learned a lot about what might have happened. Her mom was probably very young. It’s such a patriarchal society that if you are left without a husband, you’re as good as gone. You can’t be married and you can’t get a job and children are a liability. It’s dead weight. So she had to survive. Knowing that you’d think my mom would [feel like], ‘How hard it must have been for her and I wonder if she wonders about me,’ but she was very much like, ‘I would never—no matter what—ever leave you and Bryan behind.’ I learned these complexities and all this stuff that she’d been carrying for so long.

JRN: Wow. So she wanted to right the wrong that had been done to her.

LP: Yes, exactly… I understand that to be a mother meant – not the convenience or not even the survival – it’s the love that takes over.

JRN: Does she have any sense of forgiveness for her mother or do you think she’ll go to her grave with that anger?

LP: I don’t think that she carries the anger, but I don’t think that she will forgive. We had an opportunity at one point to try to find her and see if maybe she had relatives. She just doesn’t want to, which I respect. This is why I probably am the way I am in my career, especially at the time doing something that everybody told me I couldn't; she came to the States at fourteen or fifteen and had to go to a Pasadena high school, the whitest place on the planet as a Korean refugee. 

JRN: Did she speak English?

LP: Barely. [She] had no friends. Also, she had tuberculosis and she was in a sanitarium for the first one or two years that she was here. She learned to speak English with the nuns. The only person that visited her was ‘my dad.’

JRN: Her adopted brother.

LP: Her adopted brother because he was six years older. He’d come to see her. He was in the navy, so they didn’t see each other a lot. But that was her friend and they fell in love and got married, which is wild. Now when I tell that … Curtis said to me, 'You probably shouldn't tell that story.'

JRN: It’s an amazing story. Why?

LP: Because I know the truth. But other people might think, ‘Oh, she was brought there for…’ So it’s so clearly not true. Her last year as a Pasadena high school [student, she became] Rose Queen.

JP: I saw that photo of her [on Instagram]. She just owns it.

LRN: Then she won some nationwide search for the most photogenic teenage girl in America and she won it and she was a Korean orphan. So I think when people were approaching me in the windows of ballet class, she was like, ‘Maybe we should check this out.’ This is just the truth… beauty is power. And when you come from a powerless place, you do think about where you have your power and she was so beautiful and still is. But I never knew. I always felt like that wasn’t the thing. I never really knew that beauty was the power. But I think she probably thought that to a certain extent.

JRN: Scrappiness and survival; there’s nothing wrong with that.

LP: I’m only just realizing it now. It’s nothing she’s ever said and in fact, she’s never worn make-up or bought fancy face cream. It’s not a thing that she weaponizes. But I think she noticed how other people noticed her and I'm just putting it together now, to be honest.

JRN: So that empowered her to empower you.

LP: Right. And the empowering thing was to watch her do something in retrospect. I had to kick doors down left and right and I still do. Less—to your point. But I still do – and to know what she did? It’s in my blood. It’s who I am. I do not care what you think I can do. I know I can do it. My Koreaness is a superpower because her story has informed so many good things in life. My kids and I celebrate the Lunar New Year and Emerson, my little one, he's blonde with green eyes and he shows up to all the Korean, [and] AAPI stuff at school. Everyone asks him and he loves it. He also really wants to be Jewish because we did our 23 and Me and I’m 1/8th…

JRN: No. You are? What? Ashkenazi Jew?

LP: Yeah. My dad’s side.

JRN: He wants a bar mitzvah. That’s what he wants. Every kid around that age is like, ‘I get lots of presents and a big party.’

LP: Actually, the reason they like it is that they like Shabbat. They’re very much into that beautiful meal and slowing down.

JRN: That’s so sweet. We do Shabbat every Friday. It’s not a big meal. I mean, I don’t cook.

LP: If you ever want us to come… I’m inviting myself. But I know a professional chef who makes an amazing potato latke. I don’t know how he figured it out, but Curtis can nail the latke like nobody’s business.

JRN: For Passover, we're going to do it here. We've been under construction for two years, so we're having Passover here. Have you ever had Passover? What we like to do is we invite a lot of non-Jewish friends.

LP: I know you’re really on the spot here because I just invited myself over, but for Emerson’s sake, I will accept this. {she pauses} Can we shift to you?

JRN: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

NEWMAN’S SHORT FILM, “LIFE UNEXPECTED”

LP: First [of all], seeing you, it's like no time has passed. And that's how you know a friendship is connected [to] something real. I'm so happy to see you. Secondly, I watched [the short film you and your husband created about your family’s journey to parenthood] ‘Life Unexpected’ a second time. I think you sent it to me during the pandemic. One thing that’s terrible about our business is that we’re so transient and we had such a bonding connection on that show. It didn’t last that long, but I feel like we were in similar places. Anyway, and then we lost touch, which is par for the course. It’s kind of how it goes. 

JRN: It’s like summer camp.

LP: I've always felt connected to you. But when I watched that movie, it was such a gift to be able to watch my friend [find her footing as a parent]. We told [each other] so many stories about dates and this one and that one and heartbreak. I felt so privileged to be able to see what you’ve been through. … I always felt [you’re] this resilient person. I had no idea how you got through long distance. Let’s back up. You met [your husband] on that trip to Israel, which was a month after the show went down?

JRN: I met him after we shot the pilot. I went to Israel. Before New York, I went to visit some family because I didn't want to hear all the chatter, 'Are we picked up? Are we not picked up?' I’ve always been interested in producing since I was…

LP: I didn’t realize that.

JRN: Since I was in high school. I took my bat mitzvah money and started a theatre production company. I put up several plays. At Northwestern [University], I produced several plays. I always knew that being an actor was a terribly helpless career and I needed more control than that. I love putting shit together. I love cobbling together people from all different [backgrounds]. Like you—I like when someone says, ‘No, you can’t do that.’ I’m like, ‘Of course, I can do that,’ and chipping away until it’s done. I was going to Israel and my sister was dating an agent at the time at, formerly, William Morris; now it’s Endeavor. He had just signed this Israeli director at Sundance. He [said], ‘If you’re going to be [in Israel], you should meet this client of mine. He’s talented.’ I saw the film he had at Sundance.

LP: Did you love it?

JRN: Oh my god. This was before I even knew what he looked like. … I thought it was a beautiful film and I met him on the last day of my trip. I was heading back to L.A. and I had my luggage with me, heading back to the airport. He and I sat down at a coffee shop and I knew instantly. I felt something; a connection to him. I didn't know that we could make it work because he lived in Israel. But it started with art. It started with film. We had the same taste. I was like, 'I want to make movies with this person. I want to create with this person. We have the same values.' When I went back, a couple of months later, right after we got canceled, our first date was at the Yad Vashem, the Holocaust Museum in Jerusalem. I mean, that is ridiculous. We saw three movies a day. He sat me down on his couch and we watched. I was just like, 'I want to make a life with this person.' We were long-distance for four years. It was hard. You had to be on Wi-Fi to FaceTime.

LP: That's what was interesting about the movie. I kept thinking, ‘How did they know to [record their FaceTimes, which appear in the documentary]?

JRN: Because it's a ten-hour time difference, I would go to sleep and he would video his whole day and I would wake up in the morning with a half an hour of his whole day. Then we would talk on the phone a little bit and fight on the phone and argue and do all the things and then he would go to sleep and I would video my whole day. So he would wake up and he would be filled in on everything.

LP: To feel like you were a part of each other’s lives.

JRN: Right. So when he proposed to me, he took all of the footage—hundreds of hours of footage—and that’s the first part of this movie. He made it. When we were in Israel, over Christmas, he took me to this little movie theatre in Tel Aviv. I was like, 'What are you doing?' The lights went down and it was just the two of us and up came this ten-minute movie – with all of our footage together. He edited it and, at the end, it said, ‘Will you marry me?’

LP: Yes, I remember this because I remember thinking, ‘Damn. That’s so good.’ That’s so romantic.

JRN: It was really good. I was weeping. Then all of his friends were at this amazing restaurant and my sister was in Israel at the time. Then, we kept on filming because, as you know, I got pregnant quickly and so he applied for a green card right then and there. It took months for him to get a green card and we’d bought this house together and I was pregnant. I was here alone. He could not get a fucking green card. It just wouldn’t go through.

LP: It just takes a long time.

JRN: We decided not to get a work visa. We decided to skip that because we were getting married and there was no reason to get an O-1 [Visa]. So we went to the courthouse in L.A. and got legally married and applied right away. We had a wedding in Israel and it took a long time. So at the end of my pregnancy, when he got the green card, and he came—and we publically talked about it—three weeks later, I went into labor and we lost the baby.

LP: I saw you not long after.

JRN: Did you?

LP: Because I went to your baby shower, which was so lovely. I remember I couldn’t believe that we had babies. I couldn’t believe that in such a short amount of time, we went from, 'Are we ever going to find somebody to—’

JRN: The loves of our lives!

LP: I remember thinking it was one of the only times in my life that I didn’t have any proper words of comfort.

JRN: I’m so grateful that I could go totally internal and I’m so grateful for my representation—my managers, my agents—who knew that I couldn’t talk to anybody. I couldn’t even be here. A week after, my manager called Guy and was like, ‘Listen, I need you to get her on tape for something.’ Guy came to me and said, ‘Be in bed and just read this.’ I had the sides with me. I was raw. He taped me. They called a day later. They said, ‘You’ve got the job.’ It’s a series in Chicago. Pack your bags and leave. I have goosebumps. Ten days after losing a baby, I was in Chicago and we were there for half a year and it saved my life because Guy and I had never been together for more than three weeks in one place. We didn’t know each other – like you and Curtis. I knew him, but I—

LP: Didn't have the time to navigate the day-to-day.

JRN: The daily shit that makes a relationship.

LP: ‘What happens if you’re super late and you were supposed to meet for dinner?’ ‘What happens if you leave your stuff all over the house?’

JRN: It’s the real stuff that makes a marriage. It’s not the highlight reel that we send each other every day.

LP: But he got to go with you?

JRN: Oh yeah. We started in August and it was a thousand degrees. And we went all the way to March. It was negative twenty.

LP: What was the show?

JRN: It was with Christian Slater and Steve Zahn. It was called ‘Mind Games.’ I credit ABC and Channing Dungey. She championed me because I knew her from doing so many ABC [projects] and she said, ‘Go. Get out of here.’ … That saved my life. Work saved my life. It’s when Guy wrote ‘Skin,’ the feature, [which starred Jamie Bell with a supporting cast that included Vera Farmiga]. Because he had the time to be an artist and sit in the coffee shop in the freezing cold and imagine and create. And he and I got to know each other as a couple. It was a deep experience for us. Then we tried getting pregnant after that and we couldn’t get pregnant. Four years of IVF followed. Losing pregnancy after pregnancy. All this crazy shit and me finding out that I was going through menopause. It was crazy. I went through menopause at 40. I started to go through it at 36 and 37.

LP: Oh, I didn’t know that.

JRN: Yeah. I didn’t know because I got pregnant [so quickly] the first time trying without a condom and it was like, ‘Wham, bam.’ Then I just couldn't and I decided, 'I can't be pregnant anymore. I can't lose another.' That's when we decided to work with a surrogate. It was basically [on the] first try with this amazing woman and we had Alma. I was in New Mexico working when she went into labor and they shut down the set for three days so I could go.

LP: Wow. That’s such an unusual—

JRN: It was a female showrunner. She was like, ‘Just go. Have your baby and then come back. We’ll figure it out.’

LP: Hollywood waits for no one. There is no one I can think of on the face of the earth that I know that needed to go and they shut down the set.

JRN: I remember I was up for a pilot when I was pregnant and I had to disclose that I was pregnant. The series would have gone right around when I was due and the director said, 'Would you be okay with a scheduled C-section?' And now I think about that—

LP: That’s crazy.

JRN: That is fucking crazy. That is so gross. That’s so disgusting and that’s one of the ways that our business has changed for the better.

LP: So much better. 

JRN: If a director told me that now, I would go to the network and would say, ‘This was just told to me.’ I feel like we have more power now in terms of that. I remember I was terrified to tell anybody that I was [pregnant]. [I waited] until I started showing. Now I feel like there’s more sensitivity.

LP: There is, but there still isn't time. Women actresses, who are also mothers, have an incredible support system. You and Guy are so fortunate that you're able to [juggle it somehow]. How does that work, by the way? If you’re on a show and he’s working on something, you’re just both working? What do you do?

JRN: The time it’s been tested recently… Last year I got a show in Vancouver for six months and I hadn’t been on a series for a while. The next day, a movie called ‘Golda’ with Helen Mirren – that [Guy] had been waiting on for years – got the greenlight in London. We had a two and three-year-old. These are the richest of the richest problems, but it was hard because I went off to Vancouver alone with two little kids and he went to London. Because when you’re a series regular, but number five on a call sheet, you’re not going to work every day. He as the director needed to be [working for] fourteen hours a day, every single second; so we were separated for three and a half months. I hope that there can be more support when you have to travel with your children and support for child care; so you don’t have to spend every single penny on childcare and then you’re left with nothing because you’ve spent it all on caring for your children.

LP: Did your mom—

JRN: No, my mom, no. My mom couldn’t come with us. Could your mom travel with you?

LP: Yes, but now we’re in another situation where the boys are in school. It’s a whole other thing and it’s interesting because, for me, like I said before, I did make a conscious choice to step back and be present for my husband and my kids, which is very anti-feminist, I know, but it’s what I wanted.

JRN: I think that’s the most feminist thing you could do. Fuck yeah.

LP: Also because I’d accomplished so much and knew what I’d been through to get there, I also kind of knew that I wanted the full experience [of motherhood]; not distracted because I knew it was going to change me. I knew I needed that transformation. Anyway. At that time, when they were little, I would get offered something or when I wanted to work on something, she would come and it would be so fun because she would get a chance to do it again. But she wouldn’t be able to now and now they’re in school.

JRN: And hell no do they want to go with you to—

LP: I mean, they would want to go, but you’d have to not be in the school that you tried so hard to get into and the consistency for them is so important, so we’ll cross that bridge—

JRN: A year ago exactly, we took both girls [to set]. A movie that Guy wrote and directed and that I produced with him. It was the first time that I acted with him. We shot it in Tbilisi, Georgia, which borders Russia. It's like halfway around the world. The girls were three and four at the time. We took the girls out of [school] and we took our nanny with us. I don't know how long we're going to be able to do that, but we have another [project coming up]. I mean, all of our projects, we work together [on]. Do you and Curtis work together at all?

LP: We started to. During the pandemic. {laughs} Because he has this big business. Everyone thinks he’s just a chef, but he’s the CEO.

JRN: He owns restaurants.

LP: He’s got six businesses. He's a businessman. He’s a chef first because that’s who he is, but he’s got a lot of businesses to run. A big part of it is he does pots, pans, kitchen solutions, and homewares. That’s a nice thing for us to have. He would have to go to Florida to sell [the pieces]. It’s like the Home Shopping Network and he loves it because he sees the clock and the ticker goes and in his mind, he wants to sell ‘this many’ units by the time it’s ‘this time.’ He likes that race. It’s that chefy, under-pressure thing. Anyway. We couldn't do it because everything was shut down. So I shot it on my phone. We were trying to livestream and that was the best year we’re ever had because people were stuck at home and not only did they get to see inside his house but people were like, ‘My pans are kind of shitty actually. Maybe I do need some new pans.’ So it took off. Then, we started getting a lot of interest and offers to do things together because he would turn the camera on me. It was at a time [when] we were like, 'Are we doing reality now? What's happening?'

THE WORK-LIFE BALANCE

JRN: You had a show together, right?

LP: We did some lifestyle cooking stuff. I never would have ever considered it. Ever. Because an actor is an actor, right?

JRN: We’re snobby. {laughs}

LP: But with social media and with all the lines being blurred, you start to hear that it’s actually okay and it could potentially help.

JRN: I mean, Helen Mirren is doing Uber Eats movies. I just saw it. I was like, ‘Alright. If Helen can do it.’

LP: We used to have to maintain this total mystery where now I think you see Helen Mirren doing an Uber Eats ad and when you see her nail her performance, you’re like, ‘Now that’s an actor because she was nothing like she was in Uber Eats.’

JRN: Yeah, Uber Eats is the real her.

LP: I don’t love being myself on camera as much as I love telling a story.

JRN: I’m with you. But do you like working with Curtis?

LP: I do. I like hanging out with him. I like being with him. He’s my favorite person. So it’s fun. We were doing some of those lifestyle and cooking and entertaining shows together—and the one we’re doing now is also an interview. It’s a podcast, so we get to talk to friends. You should be on it. It’s fun socially. We looked at each other and were like, ‘We get to spend a whole day together? This is genius.’

JRN: Guy and I only work together. He has his directing-for-hire career like with ‘Golda,’ and I have my career as an actress. But that's over here and that's there. We have a production company [New Native Pictures] together. The film we just did, [‘Tatami’], premiered in Venice [last year]. We have 14-15 projects [in development].

LP: So you’re a producer?

JRN: I have my {knocks on the chair} full acting career. I’m going to Sundance in a couple of days to premiere a movie, [‘Exhibiting Forgiveness’ with Andre Holland and Andra Day] that I just acted in. But [Guy and I] work together a lot. When I’m not auditioning, I’m working as his producing partner.

LP: And that’s initially how you connected and fell in love?

JRN: Exactly. And our whole journey with ‘Skin—’

LP: I mean, what on earth! You have an Oscar!

JRN: We shot it in our garage. We shot it right here.

LP: Tell me what you expected to happen. Tell me what you wanted to happen because what happened is insane.

JRN: Insane. I’m still like, ‘What?!’ I still can’t comprehend [it]. We made ‘Skin,’ the short [film] because no one wanted to make ‘Skin,’ the feature. No one wanted to invest in a movie about [white supremacy]. The true story is that we took ‘Skin’ as a feature out in the summer of 2016 during [Donald] Trump and Hillary [Clinton] going toe-to-toe. All of the financiers were like, ‘We like this script and we like Guy’s work in Israel, but racism isn’t a thing anymore. We just had eight years of a Black President. We’re about to have our first female President.’ We were living in New York; I was doing a show there, and [Guy] was like, ‘I’ve been here [in the States for] five years and I have not done anything. What the fuck.' So he wrote this short [film] in a weekend. Because all of his features in Israel had been shorts first. He was like, ‘I need to direct something in English and I need to direct something in the States.' He wrote it over a weekend. We took our retirement money and I contacted every connection I had [who] basically worked for free for us. Our production office was here and we asked friends to do it. We shot it over four days and we got into almost no film festivals. He’s won Sundance before with his films. Didn’t get in there. Didn’t get into Tribeca. South by [South West], Toronto, Berlin. He’s been to all of those festivals with his movies. It got in nowhere and the musician Sting saw the film through our agents. His wife, Trudie Styler, is a well-known indie producer. They loved the short. They contacted us and said, ‘We want to make the feature.’ We had already made the feature and we were in post [production] on it. The [short] film won a little festival called HollyShorts, which qualified us for the Oscars. We were like, ‘Alright, whatever. We’ll just submit it.’ While the feature was already in Toronto—we were totally on our way and focused on the feature—we got shortlisted for the Oscars, and then, it got nominated… and Alma was born. It was like a fucking big soup of five years. I mean, it took almost ten years to make ‘Skin’ from when we discovered the idea in 2010 to when it came out in 2020. It takes decades. This stuff takes so long.

LP: That’s so encouraging to me because I can’t leave this earth without telling my mom’s story.

JRN: That’s what I wanted to tell you. That’s the part of being a producer that I love. The control that you have. As long as you don’t give up on it, as long as you just keep going and find somebody on planet Earth who's willing to give you a little bit of money or willing to say yes to you, you will get it made. Our IVF doctor, when we left him, we went to somebody else. After four years, we were like, ‘We’ve spent every penny we have and we still don’t have a baby. We’re trying somebody else.’ But he gave me this advice. He was like, ‘As long as you don’t stop trying, you will have a baby,’ and that’s how I feel about producing and our work. As an actor, once they say they went with somebody else—sayonara. You could fall so in love with that role, [but] it ‘ain't yours. But as a producer, if you have material that you are obsessed with and in love with and you know in your gut that it’s going to be amazing – as long as you don’t stop, you’ll get it made.

LP: I do see that. I’ve always admired your tenacity. I do recently feel that successful actors are talented actors—and you are so talented—but I knew when I first met you: ‘Oh, this girl. She has a focus. She’s going to get whatever she wants.’ You can feel that your focus is different than other people and that’s why you keep going.

JRN: Would I love to be juggling this while on a series while on a blah, blah, blah? [Sure.] But the thing that cuts the sting of not getting things that you love and killing yourself for auditions or getting on something and then it gets canceled, the heartbreak that is in our business—the softer landing is that I know I also have a career as a producer and that’s how I survive better. It gives me more sanity and I can be a better parent having that.

THE IMPACT OF MOTHERHOOD

LP: How has being a parent changed you? Or has it?

JRN: Yeah. Of course. How can it not? It has made me multitask in ways that I never knew were possible. It has stretched my patience. I’ve learned that you’ve just got to let go to such a degree. I have so little control anymore and the depth of love [is infinite]. The show is not about me anymore and I always felt that that was very anti-feminist. I did not want to become that person and maybe that’s the most radical feminist you can be.

LP: That's right. You just said that. I sat in my house one time. I've got three big personalities. Curtis is loud, opinionated, and loves like crazy. He's this big personality and my little one Emerson is the same. Hud’s a little more like me. Also, because I care about things so much, there are just so many people to consider and so many fires to put out, but I remember they all left for school one morning and it was super quiet and I said out loud, 'I'm number five on the call sheet.' You know what I mean?

JRN: {laughs} The dogs are even higher. You’re number seven.

LP: Yeah. At what point in my life do I go back up to one or two? I’m ready for at least some moments of it. The balance is hard and I admire you guys.

JRN: I think about the oxygen mask thing with the airplane a lot because I know that it’s so personal. It’s like a fingerprint: how one functions best. I am not as good of a parent—I don’t have the patience, tenderness, love, and care—if I am only doing that. My oxygen mask is going to Sundance for three days by myself because I know that I have to do that or [maybe it's] taking something that’s offered to me that, maybe, I wouldn’t have taken but I know I’m going to get out for four days to recharge my batteries. Guy and [my] film was at the Tokyo Film Festival. They just invited Guy. But I was like, ‘No, I need this. I need to travel with our film and with him.’ Having our nanny here for a week—and my mom was here—[made sense]. I also want my girls to see that this is an option. This is how I survive and I'm a better parent when I am able to recharge my Jaime batteries. Maybe someone can judge that, but I have to consider my mental health.

LP: One hundred percent, I think it’s the right choice. It is. Your purpose in life doesn’t have to be one thing. In fact, it shouldn’t be. … I’ve been, recently, close to [professionally booking] a lot of things and it’s been falling through a bit. It’s weird to say, but I haven’t had very many heartbreaks in my career.

JRN: I’ve had so many. {laughs}

LP: I’ve had a couple. I’ve had heartbreaks, but when I got to a certain level, one out of every four [jobs] I’d get.

JRN: That’s insane, Lindsay Price. One out of eighty [for me].

LP: It’s pretty crazy. But that being said, when I was younger, I wasn’t even in the room. So maybe I’m going out every once three months.

JRN: You’re also brilliant. I’m just saying. Continue.

LP: But I did lose my focus because deep down inside my heart, I was like, ‘I can’t imagine how this is going to work. I don’t want to be on a set. This is not enticing to me right now. I want to be with them.’ But that has very much shifted. After my father passed, you start to feel time [more] and [you consider] what you’re going to leave behind. I woke up to this acute feeling of, ‘Oh my God. I have so much to say.’ So I put myself out there a tiny bit recently. I always get close, but I’m getting the no’s and it’s like, ‘What do you mean no? This is going to be harder than I thought.’ {laughs}

JRN: It used to be just because I wanted it, I got it. {laughs}

LP: And it’s really good for me [to experience that]. Hudson, [my oldest son], is the one that I worry about because he talks to me about everything and processes stuff through me. With his allowance, he brought me this little wooden plaque that says ‘Never Give Up.’ He put it on my sink where I brush my teeth. That’s all I needed to see. That’s love right there. They want you to be happy.

JRN: But it’s also good for him to see—not just the coming close and not getting, but that you can get back up. It’s dangerous for kids to see too much success.

LP: We’re so privileged to live where we do and have what we have. They have everything at the click of a button on Amazon. We wanted to get fake mustaches and guess what? Tomorrow, we have fake mustaches. I highly suggest a fake mustache dinner night. Anyway, the number one thing I admire about watching you from afar is your balance.

JRN: Lindsay, it's every day me trying to [seek balance]. We’ve been able to be flexible because I can take them out of nursery school. But as they get older, [it’ll be harder]. Guy and I have always said we have these gypsy lives. But you can't have a gypsy life when a child is nine. I don't know how it works.

LP: [During] the first four years of motherhood I traveled. I had never left the country because I was always contracted to work. If I wasn’t working, I had to stick around to get my job and so I went to eleven countries with Hud when he was a baby. I would breastfeed him under a thing at a Michelin Star restaurant. That’s why he has the palate he does. He’ll eat anything. We did live as full as we possibly could.

JRN: Guy [and I] always say, ‘We take it as it comes.’ We can’t plan for any of it. You can’t try to make a decision about something that doesn’t exist yet. ‘You make plans; God laughs.’ We recognize that we live unconventional lives and our kids will survive and we’ll figure it out and they’ll get experiences. Maybe one [of us] stays home and the other one bounces back and forth. I don’t know. We just say, ‘Let’s have that problem and then we’ll make decisions.’

LP: Your life is an amazing example of that.

(ANTI) ANTI-AGING

JRN: [On a completely different note.] How do you feel about aging and what we do to ourselves as people in the business or not in the business? All of that stuff. I’m curious to know. No judgment.

LP: As Lindsay, who I am and what I believe in, I’m anti-vanity, which sounds hilarious looking at me because I care about fashion; I care about hair and make-up and whatever. But I’ve been doing some pretty deep work lately. When I’m truly in alignment with who I am, it’s the last thing I care about. I’m concerned with the overall feeling that it is not okay to age. That being said, it’s not about the way that I look so much as that time thing that happens. I lost my dad and then you start thinking, ‘I would like to live as long as possible because I want to be there for my kids.’ Also, I love being here. There’s so much I want to see and do. Even if I don’t go anywhere ever again, I love my kitchen dance parties and I love life and I just want it to go for as long as possible. So longevity and aging are two separate things to me.

JRN: I’m worried.

LP: I’ve done all the things—PRP [platelet-rich plasma injections]. They took blood out of my arm and they made it plasma. They shot it up into my cheeks, so I would make collagen. Scientifically, you’re like, ‘They can do that? It’ll freeze time?’ But it’s so expensive. And the fact that I’m spending money on this stuff is making me crazy. I’ll get some serums and some creams and things—whatever you have to do to feel good. I explore it all. I look at all the before and after [photos] of people's facelifts because I'm fascinated by who's done what. I'm not anti by any stretch, but I am scared. I'm also scared that I'm a part of this world where it's just so normal. My mom has that jaw and the Korean skin; there’s hope. She doesn’t do anything and she looks amazing. Long answer, but to make it more concise, I’m concerned and I’m not super hopeful [for how society handles aging]. I also wonder how much is right for me—like, ‘Where am I going to draw the line? And how much am I going to care about this?’ I have to hide from Curtis the fact that I get lasers and things like that.

JRN: Well, he knows now.

LP: Sorry, Curtis. He’s like, ‘That stuff is so ridiculous.’ But there is something in me that feels like I need to keep up. Have you seen Jennifer Lopez? How old is she? She’s got to feel pretty good about herself with whatever she’s doing.

JRN: She still looks human though.

LP: She does. So you wonder, ‘What is that?’ Anyway, what do you think?

JRN: I am also very, very worried. I feel that women are unrecognizable. It’s amazing that [there is more] inclusivity and I feel like [there are more] roles now for older women. … But I also see that–especially [with] young women–it's starting younger and younger. They’re being sold that it’s pre-emptive. [They’re sold the idea that] ‘the younger you do it, the less you’ll age.’ Why is aging bad? What are we telling ourselves and our children about living on this planet longer? You just said, ‘I want to stick around.’ Most of us want to stick around. So what is it that we are fighting? It’s one thing to look good. It’s another thing to fight the clock. I’ve done some Botox and I hated it.

LP: Because you judged yourself? Or you hated the way it looked?

JRN: I hated the way it looked. I don’t judge anyone.

LP: I judge myself. I’m like, ‘Oh, you’re so pathetic.’

JRN: You know what? You do you. I’m just saying for me, personally, I don’t like how it looks on my face. It restricts how I can emote. I did a play a bunch of years ago with a wonderful actress named Kathy Baker. She said to me, ‘I have a little tidbit for you. A little secret. If you don’t touch your face, you will work longer. Because once you start to hit 40/50, everyone else is going to do it and so when they try to cast someone who looks like a real person, it gets much more narrow who they can [cast].’ I see it as a producer. Most of our stuff is about real people and we’re more limited [when trying to cast the parts]. But it’s deeper than that. It’s wanting my kids to see that getting older is fucking amazing because it means you’re alive.

LP: That’s the thing though. I think the reason, deep down, that people do this is that ‘beauty is power’ thing. Unfortunately. But it’s anthropological.

JRN: [The idea being], ‘I can still procreate.’

LP:  Exactly. Secondly, I think it gives the illusion [you’re hiding pain]… like [some people might] Botox [their] face so [they can’t] feel. That's not a silly idea. If [you] can't frown or show grief, maybe [you’re] not grieving.

JRN: I never thought about that. Woah. You’re getting deep there, Lindsay.

LP: And maybe if you don’t look like you’re aging, maybe you’re not, right? I think it’s something that’s driven by more than what you think. 

JRN: When your face doesn’t move, it shows you haven’t had experiences. So life hasn’t done anything to you. Life does shit to all of us. It just does. You either do it to yourself or life will do it to you. It didn’t happen to me until I was 35 and then it happened to me. Maybe when your face is a blank slate, it’s [the equivalent of] showing off or bragging to other people like, ‘Life hasn’t done anything to me. I’ve been through nothing. Are you jealous of that?’ That’s what I want to fight against. Not that I’m waving my bra, but the concept of not having been through anything, to me, is sad and it’s what I don’t want my kids to see about all of this. I haven’t done anything to my face in probably two years. I’m just sort of rolling with it and seeing where it leads me. That’s my take. It’s a choice. I don’t judge anybody else for it. I really don’t.

LP: It just comes down to what matters to you the most.

JRN: But people are starting to look like space aliens.

LP: Also, [it’s scary] all the young girls who are doing mini facelifts. They’re lifting their eyebrows and changing and the standard [is warped] because of filters. I’ve been thinking a lot about it lately and I’m more interested right now in all the things that I can do to live longer, which will probably end up making me look better as well. I’m on the right track. … I did have [one incident come up when I was 22 or 23]. A fax came through from my manager. I was like, ‘Oh, cool. [An] audition. ‘What’s it going to be?’ I pulled it out and it was a doctor’s appointment to go get Botox.

JRN: A casting director once told my manager, ‘Tell Jaime never to wear short sleeves or tank tops because she has fat arms.’

LP: {gasps} A casting director told your manager that?

JRN: This was fifteen years when I was a little fuller. So that was slightly traumatic.

LP: That’s a lot to hear. And it’s also ridiculous.

JRN: I think I was a little plumper, but come on. I don’t care how fat my arms are. You don’t tell a 22-year-old. You don’t tell anyone that.

THE PAIN AND BEAUTY OF CONNECTION

LP: Actually, I wanted to tell you this... You'd come over not long after you lost the baby and we were talking. I didn’t know what to say and I felt guilty that I had a little one jumping around. I remember saying to you—and it just came out—and it echoes what you were just saying… I said, ‘You don’t know why and it’ll never be okay, but there’s a reason for this part of your story. The story is going to be what it’s supposed to be in your life’s scope.’ And I remember being like, ‘Why the fuck did [I] say that? That was the stupidest thing you could ever say.’ But then I think about it for you—

JRN: I don’t remember that at all. {laughs} All of that guilt you were harboring…

LP: You don’t? Thank God. This is sort of an apology because it was such a stupid thing to say. Of course, there’s no reason for that pain. But when people watch—because you did put it out there—when [they] watch this film that you made, I can’t imagine how many people find hope [after seeing you survive the tragedy of losing your first child].

JRN: We sent it to a lot of people.

LP: Jaime, it’s so powerful. Loss is awful. I lost my father, but he was older. The loss of a child and how it affects you—the mother—and the father... it's the worst thing I could think of and I don't think there are many tools out there for people to see there's hope to even be remotely okay again. I have a dear friend who has been through something awful as well. I’m just telling you that there is no reason, but that I’m so grateful you told your story. I can only imagine what an amazing mom you are to those girls.

JRN: There’s an article in the New York Times recently that said, ‘Can I still bitch about parenting even after I’ve gone through IVF?’ I was like, ‘I could have written this article.’ {laughs} I don't believe, necessarily, in 'meant to be,' and all that other stuff, but I do know that I have a lot more empathy. I never experienced anything remotely as deep in my life [or] as challenging. My husband grew up in Israel. He’s been through a lot of stuff. Suicide bombings right next to him at a coffee shop. All four of his grandparents are holocaust survivors. He knows that sort of depth and I had no clue until I was 35 and experienced that. I see other people who have gone through things and I can connect to people on a deep, human level. And we earned these kids. Boy, did we. To work for something and to share our story [means a lot]. We sent it to a lot of people and I wish I would have had this film [and] heard this story because I felt so alone when we went through all of our stuff. But even your dad passing, my dad passing—grief is grief. It’s a bonding experience. Unfortunately, humans have to go through shitty things to be able to connect with each other.

LP: Yeah. Or similar things, where you say, ‘Yeah, me too,’ where there’s that knowing. There’s a short hand. We bonded because we went through similar experiences [when we were younger]. Not just over the love of a chocolate chip cookie. We bonded over that as well. You bond over things where you’re like, ‘This person sees me.’ It’s all about ‘I see you.’ Unfortunately, grief is one of those things.

JRN: It turbo charges it.

LP: It’s so unexplainable until you’ve been through it.

JRN: I also think it makes you a deeper artist.

LP: You get clear about the things that are important.